4 ms·

It's not at all surprising there would be a counterproductive culture. Rockery isn't commerce. The management style which may result in excellence in commerce

by mc32 5y ago

It's not at all surprising there would be a counterproductive culture. Rockery isn't commerce. The management style which may result in excellence in commerce isn't the same that will do well in rocketry. It stems from Bezos and we know all the bad complaints that has produced. That said, can we get away from lazy shortcuts like 'bro culture' even if it's a juicy quote? Imagine someone said hick culture or urban culture, fem culture, whatever. It may be true in some way but try and use understandable adjectives rather then ones the reader has to fill and load with meaning.

johncessna 5y ago
I spent time trying to understand what that phrase specifically meant. Given the context of the article I think they're using the 'misogynist' definition. It sounds like you've gone with the 'straight white entitled male' definition. The ambiguity, which is probably intentional, makes the phrase even more problematic.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
badRNG 5y ago
"bro culture" is often used because it immediately evokes for most people that very familiar casually sexist environment that is tolerant of sexual harassment and intolerant of those who report inappropriate behavior. A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider" or often eventually cross boundaries with the woman. I feel like everyone can relate to a period of their life where they worked at a place with "bro culture." Other terms like "rape culture" and simply calling the atmosphere "sexist" often will be derided as extreme or hyperbolic. I think the accusation of "bro culture" is more palatable and harder to dismiss, if for no other reason than its instant familiarity.
- narraturgy 5y ago
  The commenter to whom you are replying did not seem to misunderstand the term, they called for the use of more meaningful terms that do not rely on slang which is potentially subject to regional or experiential biases. To that point, I highly doubt that "everyone" has the same view of the word "bro" that you do. That will only become more true the further you get from America and American slang. The fact that you felt the need to explain the term even when the person seemed to already know what you meant is an excellent example of why this terminology is unhelpful.
  - badRNG 5y ago
    The intention is to contrast the term with alternatives that men often find far more upsetting like "rape culture" or calling the culture openly misogynistic or sexist. Men often find these terms upsetting, as they feel it makes them out to be victimizers or predators. It's difficult to land on any language describing a misogynist, sexist work environment without needing to consider the emotions of those who's participation is most important in confronting the issue. To my knowledge, the right language hasn't been found that men generally find palatable for describing a sexist work environment.
    - mc32 5y ago
      Can the journalist describe what happens there with actual descriptions of the behavior that occurs along with how often it may happen? Taking a quote like bro culture is as lazy as saying hoodlum or hooligan culture, etc. What are they trying to say and have us imagine? Just tell us what the behavior is.
      - pseudalopex 5y ago
        The article expanded on the headline.
    - natpalmer1776 5y ago
      I think the point of the original comment is to avoid the conundrum I now find myself in after reading your response. To me, bro culture does not evoke the environment you described. As a average-as-you-get-cis-white-male, bro culture to me is a description of a culture in which individual accountability is lacking, and who you know matters more than what you can do. My purpose here isn't to get into a debate of who's interpretation of "bro culture" is correct. The point is that 'bro culture' cannot be tied to a subjective interpretation of the author's intent without the reader supplanting their own preconcieved interpretations. ¯\_㋡_/¯
- tomp 5y ago
  > A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider" You're jumping to conclusions here (relaxed guys rape women?!). A simple reason why men do that, is to avoid accusations of "bro culture" that quickly escalate towards "rape" as you did here. On the other hand, it's obvious that any tight-knit group of people (casual or workplace) will develop its own internal jokes and other cultural artefacts. No need to attack this process wholesale as "bro culture".
version_five 5y ago
I read a criticism of one of my former employers that mentioned "bro culture" and honestly had no idea what it was referring to. It may have been legitimate, but like you say, without some kind of explanation it's a throwaway like "toxic" that could be a serious issue or could just be decisions you don't like.

by mc32 5y ago

johncessna 5y ago

I spent time trying to understand what that phrase specifically meant. Given the context of the article I think they're using the 'misogynist' definition. It sounds like you've gone with the 'straight white entitled male' definition. The ambiguity, which is probably intentional, makes the phrase even more problematic.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

badRNG 5y ago

"bro culture" is often used because it immediately evokes for most people that very familiar casually sexist environment that is tolerant of sexual harassment and intolerant of those who report inappropriate behavior. A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider" or often eventually cross boundaries with the woman. I feel like everyone can relate to a period of their life where they worked at a place with "bro culture." Other terms like "rape culture" and simply calling the atmosphere "sexist" often will be derided as extreme or hyperbolic. I think the accusation of "bro culture" is more palatable and harder to dismiss, if for no other reason than its instant familiarity.

narraturgy 5y ago
The commenter to whom you are replying did not seem to misunderstand the term, they called for the use of more meaningful terms that do not rely on slang which is potentially subject to regional or experiential biases. To that point, I highly doubt that "everyone" has the same view of the word "bro" that you do. That will only become more true the further you get from America and American slang. The fact that you felt the need to explain the term even when the person seemed to already know what you meant is an excellent example of why this terminology is unhelpful.
- badRNG 5y ago
  The intention is to contrast the term with alternatives that men often find far more upsetting like "rape culture" or calling the culture openly misogynistic or sexist. Men often find these terms upsetting, as they feel it makes them out to be victimizers or predators. It's difficult to land on any language describing a misogynist, sexist work environment without needing to consider the emotions of those who's participation is most important in confronting the issue. To my knowledge, the right language hasn't been found that men generally find palatable for describing a sexist work environment.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Can the journalist describe what happens there with actual descriptions of the behavior that occurs along with how often it may happen? Taking a quote like bro culture is as lazy as saying hoodlum or hooligan culture, etc. What are they trying to say and have us imagine? Just tell us what the behavior is.
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      The article expanded on the headline.
  - natpalmer1776 5y ago
    I think the point of the original comment is to avoid the conundrum I now find myself in after reading your response. To me, bro culture does not evoke the environment you described. As a average-as-you-get-cis-white-male, bro culture to me is a description of a culture in which individual accountability is lacking, and who you know matters more than what you can do. My purpose here isn't to get into a debate of who's interpretation of "bro culture" is correct. The point is that 'bro culture' cannot be tied to a subjective interpretation of the author's intent without the reader supplanting their own preconcieved interpretations. ¯\_㋡_/¯
tomp 5y ago
> A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider" You're jumping to conclusions here (relaxed guys rape women?!). A simple reason why men do that, is to avoid accusations of "bro culture" that quickly escalate towards "rape" as you did here. On the other hand, it's obvious that any tight-knit group of people (casual or workplace) will develop its own internal jokes and other cultural artefacts. No need to attack this process wholesale as "bro culture".

version_five 5y ago

I read a criticism of one of my former employers that mentioned "bro culture" and honestly had no idea what it was referring to. It may have been legitimate, but like you say, without some kind of explanation it's a throwaway like "toxic" that could be a serious issue or could just be decisions you don't like.