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> that vaccine mandates are some global scheme by bill gates. While they’re all wrong, anti-vaxxers are a whole spectrum. I do think one big of nuance is impor

by rzz3 5y ago

> that vaccine mandates are some global scheme by bill gates. While they’re all wrong, anti-vaxxers are a whole spectrum. I do think one big of nuance is important here though: there are a lot of strongly pro-vax people, like myself, who are strongly anti-mandate. The choice to take the vaccine is the correct choice. The other choice hurts not only yourself, but others. However there is no circumstance in which I’d support the government requiring a medical procedure to be performed on someone without their consent.

bojan 5y ago
How is getting a vaccine shot a "medical procedure"? Very technically it is I guess, but come on. So you are happy to accept bodily harm to innocent "others" (from your comment) to protect the power to refuse to get a vaccine shot?
nemothekid 5y ago
>However there is no circumstance in which I’d support the government requiring a medical procedure to be performed on someone without their consent. You do realize vaccine mandates aren’t new? The chicken pox vaccine has been mandates for all children attending public schools for over 20 years now. It has been enormously successful in eradicated what used to be a very common disease.
- syshum 5y ago
  Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society The child vaccine requirement analogy is flawed for at-least 3 reasons 1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. 2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home school. 3. You assume people that oppose government mandates for COVID support government mandates for children. Many of us do not, I think parents should vaccinate their children, I do not believe it is the role of government to mandate that no more than I believe it is the role of government to mandate the COVID vaccination That is basically what it is comes down to is do you believe the government is your master, your parent, or king. Or do you believe in personal freedom and autonomy It clear what choice you have made
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. So the government is allowed to be "your master, your parent, or king" of children but not for adults? Be consistent. >2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home school. What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument. >3. You assume people that oppose government mandates for COVID support government mandates for children. Anyone who is 100% ok with mandating vaccines for children but not for adults is simply not being logically consistent. This is the same "point" as (1). >do you believe the government is your master, your parent, or king. Or do you believe in personal freedom and autonomy I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state. I hope you will join me in fighting for me rights to operate my vehicle whenever I want. Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers? Is the government my parent? I know I can drive well when drunk and the other guys who have killed others were just idiots. Why does the government infringe on my autonomy to drive by forcing me to get a license? Why do I have to be put into a government database? I paid for my car after all. What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster?
    - syshum 5y ago
      >>Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers? You use this also has hyperbolic statement as if there is not arguments to abolish drunk driving laws[1], which often are abused by the police as a pretext for other actions they are barred from performing.. [1]https://reason.com/2010/12/31/abolish-drunk-driving-laws/ https://reason.com/2010/12/31/abolish-drunk-driving-laws/ >>What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument What are you considering public resources here? I am fine with an employer on their own requiring a mandate as a condition of employment, I am even fine with a business requiring vaccine before they provide services. I am not fine with government requiring these businesses to do this Do you see the difference? I am not talking about "public resources" I am talking about the government interfering with private business transactions. >>I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state. Ohh I can only dream of that... >>What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster? I am sure people like you would desire that
commandlinefan 5y ago
> pro-vax people, like myself, who are strongly anti-mandate I’m vaccinated, but very uncomfortable with the government ordering me to be.
- chasd00 5y ago
  I want to get a comment in saying i feel the same. Fully vaccinated but fully against vaccination mandates.
- Zigurd 5y ago
  The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. Other than in health care, the government is mandating that large enterprises where people work closely with the public or with each other require either vaccination or frequent testing. The same goes for crowded indoor venues: Show proof of vaccination or a recent test. This is a very lax "mandate." Nobody is going to require vaccination to drive a long-haul truck.
  - EricE 5y ago
    >The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. So they are conscripting others to mandate you get vaccinated on their behalf. Gee, that sounds an awful lot like they are conscripting companies to be state actors on their behalf. Good luck with any company trying to hide behind that. It hasn't yet sunk into corporate America the liability plank they are about to walk off of but they better wake up fast or it's going to get expensive very quickly.
    - Zigurd 5y ago
      How many of the thousands of other ways the workplace is regulated for safety amounting to totalitarianism? Nearly all those regulations pertain to low probability events, which you can tell by the relative scarcity of severed limbs and poisonings etc. Why is this different?

by rzz3 5y ago

bojan 5y ago

How is getting a vaccine shot a "medical procedure"? Very technically it is I guess, but come on. So you are happy to accept bodily harm to innocent "others" (from your comment) to protect the power to refuse to get a vaccine shot?

nemothekid 5y ago

>However there is no circumstance in which I’d support the government requiring a medical procedure to be performed on someone without their consent. You do realize vaccine mandates aren’t new? The chicken pox vaccine has been mandates for all children attending public schools for over 20 years now. It has been enormously successful in eradicated what used to be a very common disease.

syshum 5y ago
Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society The child vaccine requirement analogy is flawed for at-least 3 reasons 1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. 2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home school. 3. You assume people that oppose government mandates for COVID support government mandates for children. Many of us do not, I think parents should vaccinate their children, I do not believe it is the role of government to mandate that no more than I believe it is the role of government to mandate the COVID vaccination That is basically what it is comes down to is do you believe the government is your master, your parent, or king. Or do you believe in personal freedom and autonomy It clear what choice you have made
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. So the government is allowed to be "your master, your parent, or king" of children but not for adults? Be consistent. >2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home school. What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument. >3. You assume people that oppose government mandates for COVID support government mandates for children. Anyone who is 100% ok with mandating vaccines for children but not for adults is simply not being logically consistent. This is the same "point" as (1). >do you believe the government is your master, your parent, or king. Or do you believe in personal freedom and autonomy I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state. I hope you will join me in fighting for me rights to operate my vehicle whenever I want. Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers? Is the government my parent? I know I can drive well when drunk and the other guys who have killed others were just idiots. Why does the government infringe on my autonomy to drive by forcing me to get a license? Why do I have to be put into a government database? I paid for my car after all. What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster?
  - syshum 5y ago
    >>Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers? You use this also has hyperbolic statement as if there is not arguments to abolish drunk driving laws[1], which often are abused by the police as a pretext for other actions they are barred from performing.. [1]https://reason.com/2010/12/31/abolish-drunk-driving-laws/ https://reason.com/2010/12/31/abolish-drunk-driving-laws/ >>What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument What are you considering public resources here? I am fine with an employer on their own requiring a mandate as a condition of employment, I am even fine with a business requiring vaccine before they provide services. I am not fine with government requiring these businesses to do this Do you see the difference? I am not talking about "public resources" I am talking about the government interfering with private business transactions. >>I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state. Ohh I can only dream of that... >>What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster? I am sure people like you would desire that

commandlinefan 5y ago

> pro-vax people, like myself, who are strongly anti-mandate I’m vaccinated, but very uncomfortable with the government ordering me to be.

chasd00 5y ago
I want to get a comment in saying i feel the same. Fully vaccinated but fully against vaccination mandates.
Zigurd 5y ago
The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. Other than in health care, the government is mandating that large enterprises where people work closely with the public or with each other require either vaccination or frequent testing. The same goes for crowded indoor venues: Show proof of vaccination or a recent test. This is a very lax "mandate." Nobody is going to require vaccination to drive a long-haul truck.
- EricE 5y ago
  >The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. So they are conscripting others to mandate you get vaccinated on their behalf. Gee, that sounds an awful lot like they are conscripting companies to be state actors on their behalf. Good luck with any company trying to hide behind that. It hasn't yet sunk into corporate America the liability plank they are about to walk off of but they better wake up fast or it's going to get expensive very quickly.
  - Zigurd 5y ago
    How many of the thousands of other ways the workplace is regulated for safety amounting to totalitarianism? Nearly all those regulations pertain to low probability events, which you can tell by the relative scarcity of severed limbs and poisonings etc. Why is this different?