4 ms·

Ask HN: Would HN be better without votes and with tagged streams?

A thought occurred to me this morning... A lot of reputable people posting interesting topics are stuck in the "new" page getting pushed down the page, further cementing their demise. I used to think it was just me but today Florian Mueller, the chief blogger at FOSSPatents is drowning with only 2 points for this submission ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2880510 ). Is it a boring topic? Let's examine it... Google... check! Software patents... check! Lodsys... check! These seem to topics of interest to the HN crowd and very timely news. We're not talking "The history of yarn and knitting patterns" here. Did it just go unnoticed or is there gaming at play here to promote the submissions of a select few? I honestly don't know. My own submissions, which I thought would be inline with the average HN reader's interests, have suffered a similar fate and I took it upon myself to research getting on the HN front page. The advice is bleak... 1. Be a super-important person. 2. Be part of a Digg-like clique which trades up-votes. 3. Make your own fake users and up-vote yourself. I'm not super important and I don't want to lower myself by cheating. Instead I want to propose another option... SCRAP THE VOTING SYSTEM ALTOGETHER! Instead offer... 1. A giant fire hose with all the submissions for those who can handle it. 2. Tag-based streams where submissions can assign up to 3 tags to describe their content. (ex: "patents", "google", "lodsys") HN readers can specify tags they're interested in (as many as they like in fact) as well as tags they are not interested in. This filters the fire hose! They see news they want to see and avoid the news that doesn't interest them and there is no incentive to game the system. They can turn off the filter and explore new topics if they wish too! I PUT THESE QUESTIONS TO YOU... Have you had your contributions to HN languish in obscurity when the next person posts something similar only to be launched to the front page within minutes? What do you think of these ideas?

benologist 15y ago
The reason they fall into obscurity is there's a crapton of people who are only here to submit their own website, or to build karma by submitting fluff (eg a gruber article where he literally just links to another site). I do like your idea, except it destroys discovering stuff that is just plain interesting - like that "How can I do something meaningful" thread on the front page now.
- jayfuerstenberg 15y ago
  Thank you for your feedback! I'm one of those people that posts links to updates on my blog. Advertising, in and of itself, is not a bad thing in my opinion. If you cured cancer but forgot to tell anybody nobody would stand to benefit. But yeah, some advertisers really go too far to grab your attention. As for Daring Fireball, it's really great site and I learn a tremendous amount by visiting it, even if John Gruber's just linking to something. The traffic his site gets goes to help those to whom he links and the readers get introduced to new apps and blogs. It's no different than HN in some regards, only more curated. In any case, thanks again!
  - mooism2 15y ago
    When Daring Fireball (or any other blog) merely links to something elsewhere, it usually doesn't make sense to submit the DF post to HN: instead submit what DF linked to. In this case the DF post is superfluous to anyone who isn't directly following DF's feed.
sixtofour 15y ago
I don't think there is significant influence from cliques. Things just stream down the new page too guickly, in part from lots of posts (as noted by benologist), and in part because it's annoyingly frustrating to try to skim downstream before the infamous HN Expired Link (which Hubski seems to have solved). As for too many posts, that's not much of a problem, you can skim pretty quickly (notwithstanding expired links). Crap has its own smell and is easily avoided.
- jayfuerstenberg 15y ago
  Yes, the stream moves too quickly, and this is where tagged-based streams would help. I think submissions would stick around longer in the filtered stream, exposing them for longer periods to people who want to find them.
angelortega 15y ago
I also thought of something suspicious in the front page when seeing the same repeated story jump to top in minutes and languish with 1 point just for having different wording (I then attributed the difference in success to that). I happen to find more interesting stuff in the "new" queue than in the front page (among the crud, of course). Maybe the likes of the mass does not match mine.

benologist 15y ago

The reason they fall into obscurity is there's a crapton of people who are only here to submit their own website, or to build karma by submitting fluff (eg a gruber article where he literally just links to another site). I do like your idea, except it destroys discovering stuff that is just plain interesting - like that "How can I do something meaningful" thread on the front page now.

jayfuerstenberg 15y ago
Thank you for your feedback! I'm one of those people that posts links to updates on my blog. Advertising, in and of itself, is not a bad thing in my opinion. If you cured cancer but forgot to tell anybody nobody would stand to benefit. But yeah, some advertisers really go too far to grab your attention. As for Daring Fireball, it's really great site and I learn a tremendous amount by visiting it, even if John Gruber's just linking to something. The traffic his site gets goes to help those to whom he links and the readers get introduced to new apps and blogs. It's no different than HN in some regards, only more curated. In any case, thanks again!
- mooism2 15y ago
  When Daring Fireball (or any other blog) merely links to something elsewhere, it usually doesn't make sense to submit the DF post to HN: instead submit what DF linked to. In this case the DF post is superfluous to anyone who isn't directly following DF's feed.

sixtofour 15y ago

I don't think there is significant influence from cliques. Things just stream down the new page too guickly, in part from lots of posts (as noted by benologist), and in part because it's annoyingly frustrating to try to skim downstream before the infamous HN Expired Link (which Hubski seems to have solved). As for too many posts, that's not much of a problem, you can skim pretty quickly (notwithstanding expired links). Crap has its own smell and is easily avoided.

jayfuerstenberg 15y ago
Yes, the stream moves too quickly, and this is where tagged-based streams would help. I think submissions would stick around longer in the filtered stream, exposing them for longer periods to people who want to find them.

angelortega 15y ago

I also thought of something suspicious in the front page when seeing the same repeated story jump to top in minutes and languish with 1 point just for having different wording (I then attributed the difference in success to that). I happen to find more interesting stuff in the "new" queue than in the front page (among the crud, of course). Maybe the likes of the mass does not match mine.