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According to this substack[1], it was a pilot walkout/"sickout" due to vaccine mandates. It's actually happening in more companies/industries than widely report

by cronix 5y ago

According to this substack[1], it was a pilot walkout/"sickout" due to vaccine mandates. It's actually happening in more companies/industries than widely reported. I imagine it's also picked up steam since last weeks revelation from leaked internal Pfizer emails[2] that they used cells from aborted fetuses while testing the RDNA vaccine (testing - it's not in the vaccine), but have publicly stated otherwise. It was also pretty clear that they did not want the public to know from the text. And a lot of "religious exemptions" are being turned down. This would be a bit like taking a staunch vegan and forcing them to eat something (via threatening career) that was tested on animals while they said otherwise. > The pilot emailed following the first Southwest post today (and provided his SWA ID to prove his identity). He asked that I paraphrase the email. > Essentially, the union cannot organize or even acknowledge the sickout, because doing so would make it an illegal job action. Years ago, Southwest and its pilots had a rough negotiation, and the union would not even let the pilots internally discuss the possibility of working-to-rule (which would have slowed Southwest to a crawl). > But at the moment the pilots don’t even have to talk to each other about what they’re doing. The anger internally - not just among pilots but other Southwest workers - is enormous. The tough prior negotiations notwithstanding, Southwest has a history of decent labor relations, and workers believe the company should stand up for them against the mandate. Telling pilots in particular to comply or face termination has backfired. [1] https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-a-southwest-airlines-pilot/comments https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-a-southwest-airli... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUXGB5FzhPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUXGB5FzhPc

native_samples 5y ago
It's telling that this is downvoted, even though it presents actual evidence from an actual SWA employee vs the random speculation found elsewhere in the thread. The cause isn't leanness or MBAs, its pilots protesting against vaccine mandates, by the testimony of an actual pilot who works there.
- bserge 5y ago
  [flagged]
- syshum 5y ago
  That is because it goes agaist the narrative that the only people that oppose mandates are backwater rednecks that have no education. It can not be that high skilled professionals oppose having their body autonomy revoked... it can not be that "my body my choice" should extend to more medical choices than 1... no no. this can not be allowed
  - orangepurple 5y ago
    There is a concerted effort to eliminate autonomy and individual agency
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    If fetuses were infectious - if you could stand by a pregnant person at the bus stop or grocery store or school, and suddenly find yourself pregnant by breathing the same air - "my body, my choice" would not be the reproductive rights slogan.
    - syshum 5y ago
      That is both a weak and dangerous argument if you place any value at all on individual freedom. As a vaccinated person I have a MUCH MUCH greater risk of dying in a car accident on the way to the grocery store than I do of contracting a deadly case of COVID. Before the vaccine was widely available you may have had a case but once you become vaccinated your risk level drops to well below other risks we already accept as part of having a free society.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Our society has always balanced individual freedoms versus the impacts exercising them have on others. I cannot have murder, child porn, or heroin use be a part of my religious ceremonies. I cannot have libel be a part of my free speech and expression. I cannot be Typhoid Mary and spread disease around. I cannot open a restaurant that skips hand washing. I cannot go to public school unvaccinated for measles and a number of other diseases in most states. I cannot drive drunk, despite research showing doing so actually improves my chances of surviving an accident (https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/odds-favor-drunk-trauma-victims-09-10-01/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/odds-favo...). Immunocompromised people exist. Tens of millions of children aren't yet eligible for the vaccines. I'm inclined to consider their individual freedoms not to be needlessly infected by a pandemic disease as important, too.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> I imagine it's also picked up steam since last weeks revelation from leaked internal Pfizer emails[2] that they used cells from aborted fetuses while testing the RDNA vaccine (testing - it's not in the vaccine), but have publicly stated otherwise. The fact that fetal cells are used in testing has been public for a long time. This article dates back to last December, for example: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-t... (and here's me citing it two months ago, in case you want to claim a ninja-edit "last week": https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/p6f6yl/laop_wants_a_religious_exemption_to_the_vaccine/h9d9821/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/p6f6yl/l...) The “it’s the vaccine mandates!” argument has to figure out a way to explain why all the other airlines weren’t similarly affected when they instituted theirs. Alex Berenson is… not a reputable source. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-...
- smsm42 5y ago
  TBH, neither is The Atlantic. https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concede... https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/16/im-at-a-loss-for-words-the-unraveling-narrative-behind-the-atlantics-defund-the-police-shooting-tale/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/16/im-at-a-loss-for-words-... https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/02/washington-post-atlantic-farrakhan-far-right/ https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/02/washington-post-atlantic-... https://web.archive.org/web/20190911050141/https://www.dailywire.com/news/30207/atlantic-writer-blows-lid-kanye-west-situation-rap-emily-zanotti https://web.archive.org/web/20190911050141/https://www.daily... https://archive.ph/MWN6K/again?url=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/10/trump-organizations-mystery-server/572485/ https://archive.ph/MWN6K/again?url=https://www.theatlantic.c... And many other examples. OTOH, Derek Thompson predicted in 2017 that Bitcoin is overpriced at $16K, so maybe he knows something we don't?
brandmeyer 5y ago
> And a lot of "religious exemptions" are being turned down. This would be a bit like taking a staunch vegan and forcing them to eat something (via threatening career) that was tested on animals while they said otherwise. Considering all of the other household items that are also commonly tested using fetal cell lines (including acetaminophen, aspirin, ibuprofen, albuterol, pseudoephidrine), the analogy doesn't apply.
- SilasX 5y ago
  Heh, incidentally, there was a hospital that (reportedly) said, "okay sure, if you're swearing off all those other things you can claim a vaccine exemption": https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-swear-off-tylenol-tums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-...
  - buescher 5y ago
    Many (most?) of those medicines are quite old and were developed before widespread legalization of abortion, let alone use of fetal stem cells in drug development.
    - brandmeyer 5y ago
      Nevertheless, human cell culture testing has become a fundamental part of the safe production of many common drugs. FDA regulation and approval extends not just to the chemistry of a drug but also to how it is manufactured, to ensure that the delivered product is safe.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Old medicines are still evaluated for ongoing safety profiles, including interactions with new classes of drugs that may come on the market. Users of these medicines benefit from this. As an example, here's a 2018 study on Tylenol using the HEK 293 line: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29273526/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29273526/
anarticle 5y ago
Just to clarify this YouTube link: HEK293 cells are used in TONS of research, yes they are derived from fetal cell lines in the 70s. When I say tons, I mean if you say "HEK cells" to someone who does any cell culture they know what you're talking about. It is completely noncontroversial, and cancer/bioenergetic research utilizes them. I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fuel on a giant nothingburger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fuel on a giant nothingburger. That's their MO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas
  - cronix 5y ago
    Wikipedia says about using wikipedia: > Wikipedia can be a great tool for learning and researching information. However, as with all reference works, Wikipedia is not considered to be a reliable source as not everything in Wikipedia is accurate, comprehensive, or unbiased. So, there's also that to consider. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Researching_with_Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Researching_with_Wik...
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      That's why you can (and should!) scroll to the bottom of an article and consult the references, if you're unsure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas#References https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas#References
    - anarticle 5y ago
      I have worked with HEK cells and linked to Wikipedia as it is generalized enough for public consumption. Here's a Nature Communications paper on HEK293 containing a brief history with an impact factor ~13. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5767 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5767 Above 10 is considered of significant worth. If that's not good enough for you, stick to whatever it is you're good at, and stop citing trash.
Zigurd 5y ago
It is a good thing that employers are rejecting made-up religious objections that have no basis in consistent and longstanding practice. If they don't, it will come back to bite them over and over and result in endless litigation.

by cronix 5y ago

native_samples 5y ago

It's telling that this is downvoted, even though it presents actual evidence from an actual SWA employee vs the random speculation found elsewhere in the thread. The cause isn't leanness or MBAs, its pilots protesting against vaccine mandates, by the testimony of an actual pilot who works there.

bserge 5y ago
[flagged]
syshum 5y ago
That is because it goes agaist the narrative that the only people that oppose mandates are backwater rednecks that have no education. It can not be that high skilled professionals oppose having their body autonomy revoked... it can not be that "my body my choice" should extend to more medical choices than 1... no no. this can not be allowed
- orangepurple 5y ago
  There is a concerted effort to eliminate autonomy and individual agency
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  If fetuses were infectious - if you could stand by a pregnant person at the bus stop or grocery store or school, and suddenly find yourself pregnant by breathing the same air - "my body, my choice" would not be the reproductive rights slogan.
  - syshum 5y ago
    That is both a weak and dangerous argument if you place any value at all on individual freedom. As a vaccinated person I have a MUCH MUCH greater risk of dying in a car accident on the way to the grocery store than I do of contracting a deadly case of COVID. Before the vaccine was widely available you may have had a case but once you become vaccinated your risk level drops to well below other risks we already accept as part of having a free society.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Our society has always balanced individual freedoms versus the impacts exercising them have on others. I cannot have murder, child porn, or heroin use be a part of my religious ceremonies. I cannot have libel be a part of my free speech and expression. I cannot be Typhoid Mary and spread disease around. I cannot open a restaurant that skips hand washing. I cannot go to public school unvaccinated for measles and a number of other diseases in most states. I cannot drive drunk, despite research showing doing so actually improves my chances of surviving an accident (https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/odds-favor-drunk-trauma-victims-09-10-01/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/odds-favo...). Immunocompromised people exist. Tens of millions of children aren't yet eligible for the vaccines. I'm inclined to consider their individual freedoms not to be needlessly infected by a pandemic disease as important, too.

ceejayoz 5y ago

> I imagine it's also picked up steam since last weeks revelation from leaked internal Pfizer emails[2] that they used cells from aborted fetuses while testing the RDNA vaccine (testing - it's not in the vaccine), but have publicly stated otherwise. The fact that fetal cells are used in testing has been public for a long time. This article dates back to last December, for example: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-t... (and here's me citing it two months ago, in case you want to claim a ninja-edit "last week": https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/p6f6yl/laop_wants_a_religious_exemption_to_the_vaccine/h9d9821/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/p6f6yl/l...) The “it’s the vaccine mandates!” argument has to figure out a way to explain why all the other airlines weren’t similarly affected when they instituted theirs. Alex Berenson is… not a reputable source. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-...

smsm42 5y ago
TBH, neither is The Atlantic. https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concede... https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/16/im-at-a-loss-for-words-the-unraveling-narrative-behind-the-atlantics-defund-the-police-shooting-tale/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/16/im-at-a-loss-for-words-... https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/02/washington-post-atlantic-farrakhan-far-right/ https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/02/washington-post-atlantic-... https://web.archive.org/web/20190911050141/https://www.dailywire.com/news/30207/atlantic-writer-blows-lid-kanye-west-situation-rap-emily-zanotti https://web.archive.org/web/20190911050141/https://www.daily... https://archive.ph/MWN6K/again?url=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/10/trump-organizations-mystery-server/572485/ https://archive.ph/MWN6K/again?url=https://www.theatlantic.c... And many other examples. OTOH, Derek Thompson predicted in 2017 that Bitcoin is overpriced at $16K, so maybe he knows something we don't?

brandmeyer 5y ago

> And a lot of "religious exemptions" are being turned down. This would be a bit like taking a staunch vegan and forcing them to eat something (via threatening career) that was tested on animals while they said otherwise. Considering all of the other household items that are also commonly tested using fetal cell lines (including acetaminophen, aspirin, ibuprofen, albuterol, pseudoephidrine), the analogy doesn't apply.

SilasX 5y ago
Heh, incidentally, there was a hospital that (reportedly) said, "okay sure, if you're swearing off all those other things you can claim a vaccine exemption": https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-swear-off-tylenol-tums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-...
- buescher 5y ago
  Many (most?) of those medicines are quite old and were developed before widespread legalization of abortion, let alone use of fetal stem cells in drug development.
  - brandmeyer 5y ago
    Nevertheless, human cell culture testing has become a fundamental part of the safe production of many common drugs. FDA regulation and approval extends not just to the chemistry of a drug but also to how it is manufactured, to ensure that the delivered product is safe.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Old medicines are still evaluated for ongoing safety profiles, including interactions with new classes of drugs that may come on the market. Users of these medicines benefit from this. As an example, here's a 2018 study on Tylenol using the HEK 293 line: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29273526/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29273526/

anarticle 5y ago

Just to clarify this YouTube link: HEK293 cells are used in TONS of research, yes they are derived from fetal cell lines in the 70s. When I say tons, I mean if you say "HEK cells" to someone who does any cell culture they know what you're talking about. It is completely noncontroversial, and cancer/bioenergetic research utilizes them. I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fuel on a giant nothingburger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells

ceejayoz 5y ago
> I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fuel on a giant nothingburger. That's their MO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas
- cronix 5y ago
  Wikipedia says about using wikipedia: > Wikipedia can be a great tool for learning and researching information. However, as with all reference works, Wikipedia is not considered to be a reliable source as not everything in Wikipedia is accurate, comprehensive, or unbiased. So, there's also that to consider. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Researching_with_Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Researching_with_Wik...
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    That's why you can (and should!) scroll to the bottom of an article and consult the references, if you're unsure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas#References https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas#References
  - anarticle 5y ago
    I have worked with HEK cells and linked to Wikipedia as it is generalized enough for public consumption. Here's a Nature Communications paper on HEK293 containing a brief history with an impact factor ~13. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5767 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5767 Above 10 is considered of significant worth. If that's not good enough for you, stick to whatever it is you're good at, and stop citing trash.

Zigurd 5y ago

It is a good thing that employers are rejecting made-up religious objections that have no basis in consistent and longstanding practice. If they don't, it will come back to bite them over and over and result in endless litigation.