6 ms·
> "99% survival rate" 1% dead means around 3.5 million dead, in the US alone. Do you consider that acceptable?
by KozmoNau7 5y ago
> "99% survival rate"
1% dead means around 3.5 million dead, in the US alone. Do you consider that acceptable?
- baumy 5y agoIf the choice is between 3.5 million dead, and the rise of authoritarianism and censorship, then yes the former is much less tragic than the latter and therefore the more acceptable option. And that's before taking into account that the survival rate is quite a bit higher than 99%, so it won't be 3.5 million dead. And also before taking into account that the vast majority of the dead will be the very old, and people who took extraordinarily poor care of their health. Of course the choice isn't that simple or binary in the real world, but there's elements of that choice at play and I stand by the point I'm making.
- unethical_ban 5y agoVaccine mandates aren't new. You weren't protesting them 3 years ago, but now you are willing to take the side of 3.5 million members of the community slowly dying so you don't have to get a shot. Your persecution complex is out of control. The absurdity of peoples' accusations of world-ending authoritarianism and censorship is baffling.
- grillvogel 5y agowhich brand new rushed vaccine was being mandated 3 years ago?
- unethical_ban 5y agoHow many years, and how many people have to die while going from 99% to 99.9% sure of a vaccine's safety, before you would say it's safe? In your professional opinion as an epidemiologist?
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoYou didn’t answer the question.
- downandout 5y agoVaccine mandates aren't new. No. But mandating a brand new vaccine is new. We don’t know what the long term effects are. Nothing about COVID or the way in which tyrants around the world are using it to seize new powers is normal. People at the FDA are resigning left and right [1]. Nobody wants their name on this thing. [1] https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/anger-frustration-at-fda-over-bidens-booster-plan-two-top-regulators-resign/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/anger-frustration-at...
- unethical_ban 5y agoTwo people resigned: One went left, and one went right.
- shartacct 5y ago[flagged]
- downandout 5y agoYour comment has been flagged, but beyond that, I said nothing about being hesitant about the vaccine. I am vaccinated. I believe the mandates are flawed, largely because they don't take natural immunity into account. I have said none of the things you're accusing me of saying.
- shartacct 5y ago[flagged]
- dang 5y agoWe've banned this account—you can't post like this regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- downandout 5y agoI flagged that comment for wishing me and my children dead, and this one for calling me a "dumbfuck". And nothing I have posted is FUD, nor is it anti-vaccine.
- thowaway976351 5y agolets mandate a dubiously efficacious product for a problem we created...
- unethical_ban 5y agoYou had to use a throwaway to spread your disinformation.
- KozmoNau7 5y agoYou're willing to sacrifice people that you consider "expendable", because you think vaccination and masks are more dangerous than a highly infectious disease with long-lasting detrimental health consequences even for survivors. Such a severe lack of empathy is disturbing. > the vast majority of the dead will be the very old, and people who took extraordinarily poor care of their health. This is incorrect, the Delta variant is hitting young people hard, including children. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/how-covid-19-delta-variant-is-impacting-younger-people/ https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/how-covid-19-d... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-people-make-up-biggest-group-of-newly-hospitalized-covid-19-patients https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-people-make-up-... https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-unvaccinated-people-are-being-hospitalized-covid-19-delta-variant-n1273998 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-unvaccinate... The ego-driven vaccine denial and lack of respect for distancing and mask requirements is killing people.
- EricE 5y agoScandinavians countries just suspended Moderna for kids. But keep ranting how the science is _settled_ and everyone just needs to fall in line. Give me a break. As for your lame "lack of empathy" argument - the only way for an unvaccinated person to be a risk to anyone else with COVID is if they are symptomaic - i.e. if they have a fever. However, as a vaccinated person not only can you have COVID, you can be shedding (spreading) it without any way of anyone around you knowing unless you have been recently tested. That's what's beyond crazy - the vaccinated represent a bigger threat for covert spreading than the unvaccinated! An utter 180 from the popular narrative. So yeah, keep on your high horse about empathy, denial, etc. At this point there is very little science in these discussions - you are espousing dogma and propaganda.
- drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y agoLooking at the CDC data linked from the healthline article, it appears that the delta variant does not hit children hard. https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_5.html https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_5.html
- yonaguska 5y ago
- bojan 5y agoWhat about people who can't get medical care like cancer treatments, because hospitals are full of people unnecessarily ill from COVID?
- whatthesmack 5y agoWhat about people who can't get medical care like cancer treatments, because hospitals are firing people with natural immunity who don't need (and thus refuse) the vaccine?
- busymom0 5y agoAge, obesity and health conditions play a massive role in the hospitalizations and deaths. When the vaccine isn’t preventing catching and spreading the virus, it makes absolutely zero sense to have mandates. And based on Israel and Australia, the mandate doesn’t stop at 2 shots.
- KozmoNau7 5y agoFull vaccination greatly reduces the risk of infection and thus also the risk of transmission. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-risks.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-ri... https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/09/covid-vaccines-very-effective-hinder-spread-studies-say https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/09/covid-va... Additionally, the Delta variant (currently the most prevalent by far) hits young people and children hard. Even if you consider the elderly, the obese and the chronically sick to be "expendable" (which is an absolutely abhorrent worldview), your claims simply are not correct.
- busymom0 5y agoEdit: your CDC link is outdated. It uses data from December 13, 2020 to April 10, 2021. That’s ancient and even before delta was around. The second link also doesn’t use delta data. Look at more newer data or just look at Singapore, Israel, Iceland. That proves my point. Your last statement shows you aren’t interested in this honestly because you are more interested in virtue signalling and claiming moral superiority. How you came to the conclusion from my statement about me be young fit and healthy (and thus very low risk) to somehow mean I consider elderly, obese and sick to be expendable is beyond me. I looked at the data for my age group and found that there’s 5-7x more deaths and a lot more serious injuries from car accidents than Covid. Also you are wrong. Even in asymptomatic or mild cases, the viral loads is the same and you can spread the virus. The virus grows in your nose and pathways and can spread even if you are vaccinated and within the 3 month period after which the effectiveness drastically declines. How people expect every young person to keep getting injected every 6 months is beyond me. In Ontario, 36.6% of the cases on October 8 were fully vaccinated and 34.5% of deaths in Canada in the week of September 4-11 were fully vaxxed. We had under 10% fully vaxxed till June 10, so vast majority of our vaccinations occurred in last 3 months. The vaccine effectiveness decline is clearly visible as the weeks go by. In Iceland, their recent outbreak started from fully vaxxed individuals even when they had around 60% of population vaxxed. These vaccines are only a potential symptom mitigator. That doesn’t mean it should get mandated.
- native_samples 5y agoLuckily 1% IFR is an over-estimate by around 10x, may 5x if you use pessimistic assumptions, especially now with the vaccines. UK govt admitted in Parliament a few weeks ago that IFR is now <0.1% Moreover that number assumes everyone will get infected, but there's nothing deep driving that belief. Scientists don't understand to what extent the immune system can recognize and fight viruses based on prior exposure to other similar viruses, so they just ignore the possibility and assume no such ability exists at all. Yet it's been nearly two years now and I never got infected even after I spent 10 days self-isolating with someone who had it and had symptoms. Most of the population hasn't tested positive despite saturation levels of testing. The assumption of 100% infection doesn't seem to be a very good one.
- EricE 5y agoDunno why you are getting downvoted - I've been on dozens of flights from coast to coast in the US during COVID and never contracted it. I'm a routine blood donor and have come up negative for COVID every time. I'm not claiming some sort of special invulnerability, just pointing out that I'm either VERY lucky or this thing isn't nearly as transmissible as our darling media is flogging it to be.