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If he didn't transmit sensitive information, I don't see how he could be convicted of doing so. Maybe some other lesser charge of some kind? (The idea of prose

If he didn't transmit sensitive information, I don't see how he could be convicted of doing so. Maybe some other lesser charge of some kind? (The idea of prosecuting such a person for fraud is hilarious but seems unlikely). I'm sure he wouldn't have a security clearance ever again.

willis936 5y ago
Don't you need standing in order to bring fraud charges? If so, you would have to be admitting that you solicited someone for government secrets, which is very illegal.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  I mean, I guess it's not illegal if you were the FBI, which is what happened here? But yes, it seems a stretch. This sounds increasingly like a Coen brothers movie though, yeah.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    The complaint was filed by FBI Special Agent Justin Van Tromp. That definitely sounds like a character in a Coen brothers movie. Something I've always wondered is, why are they all special agents? Is there some place they put all the ordinary agents? Are they the ones that just spend their whole careers in cubicles?
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Something I've always wondered is, why are they all special agents? Because that's the job title? > Is there some place they put all the ordinary agents? Training. That is, the lowest rank on the FBI agent career path is apparently “New Agent Trainee” and the next step up is “Special Agent”.
      - perl4ever 5y ago
        Ok, moving on...you know what the French call (or called) their nuclear deterrent? "Force de Frappe"!
      - pseingatl 5y ago
        FBI, DEA, ATF, Secret Service: they are all "special agents."
      - jrochkind1 5y ago
        In Lake Wobegon FBI, all the agents are special.
- caf 5y ago
  The state always has standing to prosecute crimes, regardless of whether the victim wants them to or not.
pseingatl 5y ago
Attempt is a crime. So is conspiracy. His wife was in on it. But there are two questions: how did the FBI find out about it? Was Toebbe targeted by an informant? Secondly, which country was he offering the secrets to? This makes a big difference. "Enemy" or ally? Maybe he felt sorry for the way France was effed over by AUKUS and wanted to make amends.
- pseingatl 5y ago
  Looks like there was no informant. He contacted the French Embassy on his own and after that, the French government cooperated with the FBI. Prediction: he'll take a plea. In mitigation, France is an ally. Aggravation: these are nuclear secrets. France will not come to his aid, as Israel did for Pollard for many years, unsuccessfully. Fortunately, there was no real harm. 20 years unless he gets a particularly harsh judge. Worst case: 40.
  - dhx 5y ago
    If he's willing to sell the information to France, France would rightly be concerned that he'd be willing to also sell the information to countries France isn't friendly with. Even if France didn't care about the information being shared elsewhere, they would still likely care about potentially breaching the classified information treaty they signed with the USA back in 1977[1]. When France received the information, they may have assumed it was a test from the USA to see if France was still upholding their treaty obligations to report unauthorised distribution of US classified information? [1] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201114/volume-1114-I-17238-English.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201114/v...
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  > This makes a big difference. "Enemy" or ally? Makes a big difference to what, are you suggesting? In the law? How does Russia vs France make a difference? we have declared war against neither. Sharing national security secrets with either is a crime in fact. How it looks in the news and to the social media mob? Sure.

willis936 5y ago

Don't you need standing in order to bring fraud charges? If so, you would have to be admitting that you solicited someone for government secrets, which is very illegal.

jrochkind1 5y ago
I mean, I guess it's not illegal if you were the FBI, which is what happened here? But yes, it seems a stretch. This sounds increasingly like a Coen brothers movie though, yeah.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  The complaint was filed by FBI Special Agent Justin Van Tromp. That definitely sounds like a character in a Coen brothers movie. Something I've always wondered is, why are they all special agents? Is there some place they put all the ordinary agents? Are they the ones that just spend their whole careers in cubicles?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Something I've always wondered is, why are they all special agents? Because that's the job title? > Is there some place they put all the ordinary agents? Training. That is, the lowest rank on the FBI agent career path is apparently “New Agent Trainee” and the next step up is “Special Agent”.
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      Ok, moving on...you know what the French call (or called) their nuclear deterrent? "Force de Frappe"!
    - pseingatl 5y ago
      FBI, DEA, ATF, Secret Service: they are all "special agents."
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      In Lake Wobegon FBI, all the agents are special.
caf 5y ago
The state always has standing to prosecute crimes, regardless of whether the victim wants them to or not.

pseingatl 5y ago

Attempt is a crime. So is conspiracy. His wife was in on it. But there are two questions: how did the FBI find out about it? Was Toebbe targeted by an informant? Secondly, which country was he offering the secrets to? This makes a big difference. "Enemy" or ally? Maybe he felt sorry for the way France was effed over by AUKUS and wanted to make amends.

pseingatl 5y ago
Looks like there was no informant. He contacted the French Embassy on his own and after that, the French government cooperated with the FBI. Prediction: he'll take a plea. In mitigation, France is an ally. Aggravation: these are nuclear secrets. France will not come to his aid, as Israel did for Pollard for many years, unsuccessfully. Fortunately, there was no real harm. 20 years unless he gets a particularly harsh judge. Worst case: 40.
- dhx 5y ago
  If he's willing to sell the information to France, France would rightly be concerned that he'd be willing to also sell the information to countries France isn't friendly with. Even if France didn't care about the information being shared elsewhere, they would still likely care about potentially breaching the classified information treaty they signed with the USA back in 1977[1]. When France received the information, they may have assumed it was a test from the USA to see if France was still upholding their treaty obligations to report unauthorised distribution of US classified information? [1] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201114/volume-1114-I-17238-English.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201114/v...
jrochkind1 5y ago
> This makes a big difference. "Enemy" or ally? Makes a big difference to what, are you suggesting? In the law? How does Russia vs France make a difference? we have declared war against neither. Sharing national security secrets with either is a crime in fact. How it looks in the news and to the social media mob? Sure.