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>On June 8, 2021, the undercover agent sent $10,000 in cryptocurrency to Jonathan Toebbe as “good faith” payment. ... After retrieving the SD card, the undercov
by jjulius 5y ago
>On June 8, 2021, the undercover agent sent $10,000 in cryptocurrency to Jonathan Toebbe as “good faith” payment. ... After retrieving the SD card, the undercover agent sent Jonathan Toebbe a $20,000 cryptocurrency payment. In return, Jonathan Toebbe emailed the undercover agent a decryption key for the SD Card. A review of the SD card revealed that it contained Restricted Data related to submarine nuclear reactors.
Forgive my ignorance here, but this actually made me curious. At this point, he's been given $30k almost entirely out of good faith. What legal trouble - if any - would be be in if he gave them the key, and when they decrypted it they found hours and hours of porn or some other junk? As though he wasn't interested in giving them documents, but rather bilking some foreign country out of cash.
- temp8964 5y agoOnly $30k for secret military information? The couple were really desperate.
- RogerL 5y agoAt an old job we used to get regular talks given by the FBI about espionage cases. A common theme was just how cheaply most sell themselves for. Motivations tend to be as much titillation (playing spy) and revenge (passed over for promotion, for example) as it is for pure money.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- perl4ever 5y agoOr just political beliefs/idealism. Some people thought for instance that being the sole possessor of atomic weapons was too much power for any country, even the US. I believe I read something that gave the impression that certain secrets were given to the Soviets, not for money, out of narcissism, or love of Communism, but just the belief that a balance of power was better for the world.
- atatatat 5y agoPlease share where if you recall.
- asudosandwich 5y agoIIRC it was indicated as the motivation behind convicted spy Christopher John Boyce in the movie The Falcon and the Snowman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falcon_and_the_Snowman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falcon_and_the_Snowman
- perl4ever 5y agoWell, this is who I was thinking of. Apparently the motivation is disputed though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs "In her 2020 book, Atomic Spy: The Dark Lives of Klaus Fuchs, Nancy Thorndike Greenspan concluded that "Fuchs sought 'the betterment of mankind' [when sharing secrets with the Soviets] ... because "his goal became to balance world power and to prevent nuclear blackmail" according to a New York Times review by the conservative historian Ronald Radosh. Radosh wrote that "this was a post facto justification. The reason Fuchs spied was simply that he was a Communist and a true believer in Stalin and the Soviet Union"."
- bawolff 5y agoHuh. That kind of makes sense. The thought of a single country being able to nuke anyone it disagrees with basically without consequence is pretty terrifying.
- perl4ever 5y agoOr, as the saying goes "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoIt kinda makes sense, because MAD has kept people from nuking freely. But there were a few close calls. That said, if e.g. only the US had nukes after WW2, they would be the world's dictator. I mean they already are very influential everywhere, but they don't have absolute power at least. Still wouldn't want to be at war with them though.
- ren_engineer 5y agonot surprising, politicians hand out million dollar contracts for pennies on the dollar
- lavezza 5y agoHe split the data into 50 packets. He was asking for $100k per packet, or $5mil. They nabbed him after the first packet.
- drewblaisdell 5y agoWhere are you getting this information?
- icansearch 5y agoIt's in the DoJ PDF - https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1440946/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1440946/downl...
- drewblaisdell 5y agoThanks!
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoThey'd probably nab him for bullshit and then make him waste at least 30k defending himself in court. Three letter agencies didn't get their reputation for being vengeful jerks from nowhere.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoThere's nothing vengeful in bringing a mole to justice.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoYou're not wrong but just going by TLA press releases it's pretty impossible to tell genuine moles from people getting railroaded because the TLAs are allergic to being wrong.
- space_ghost 5y agoThat concept would make for excellent espionage comedy story bait.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- iab 5y ago10 Ways To Lose Your Freedom
- evan_ 5y agoIt’s pretty close to the plot of “Burn After Reading.” Two people have access to (what they believe to be) state secrets and try to sell them to a foreign government, but are unknowingly dealing with a US agent the whole time
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y agoI just watched it recently and I made similar connection. I naturally hope the connection is in my head only. Plus, in this case, it would appear the couple was already a part of IC. Does someone remember of the top of their head percent of US population engaged in it? Past 10% leaks like that are practically guaranteed.
- detaro 5y agoThe initial package with the "teaser" documents alone would probably be a lot of trouble given the claim that it already had restricted documents. And probably a bunch of extra violations around military or clearance holder rules, depending on what specifically applies to him. Presumably doing things that make you an extortion target for a foreign power is not well-regarded for such personnel. And there's always tax fraud.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ipaddr 5y agoTax fraud would only apply if he failed to disclose the income.
- wnevets 5y agoHow do you disclose income from crimes?
- ceejayoz 5y agoYou include it on your tax return. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17 > Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Schedule 1 (Form 1040), line 8, or on Schedule C (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity. You're theoretically safe from them disclosing this to other law enforcement agencies. (I wouldn't want to test that, though.) https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income-tax/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income... > If you tell the IRS you made $1 million from stealing money or dealing drugs, does the agency tip off the cops? > Legally, it can't, unless a law-enforcement agency gets a court order granting it access to a specific taxpayer's return. The IRS isn't supposed to proactively alert other agencies about misdeeds unless terrorism is involved. In that case, it still needs a court order to disclose anything, but the IRS can initiate the legal process on its own.
- sumedh 5y agoI am sure there would be some rules saying you have to tell the FBI or some other dept if you get contact from someone who wants these secrets.
- LinuxBender 5y agoHis chain of command and the OSI (military equivalent of the FBI)
- mpyne 5y agoNCIS is the equivalent here, not AF OSI.
- MattGaiser 5y agoThe initial package probably violated the law by itself.
- aaron695 5y agoIf he is dealing with a government agent and receiving money then he has to report it at his work. Even if he 'knows' it's an undercover US department. So, they would and should still throw the book at him. He'd be secretly dealing in 'data', fake or not, and money related to his classified job. Not hard to see that's very illegal. He would be leaking info as well just talking to them. They might collate speech structure that links him to other non classified/leaked projects. Or know where he lives or work hours.
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoLets take his job out of it- suppose it was all a lie, and he actually works as a cleaner? I cannot aee what law he wouod be breaking
- pseingatl 5y agoMail fraud. Wire fraud. Attempt. Conspiracy.
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoAre they actually applicable? Conspiracy requires intent, which has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Good luck convincing a jury that cleaner had intent to sell gov. secrets, and it wasnt a joke. Fraud, entering into a contract without intent to fullfill it? I don't think it works if the obligations would be illegal
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- theshadowknows 5y agoI’m no lawyer but I do recall an episode of Cops waaaay back where a guy got busted for selling “weed” except it was actually oregano. He still got charged with something. But I can’t remember what.
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- fwip 5y agoI mean, if it hadn't been a honeypot, he might have got killed for pulling a stunt like that.
- crate_barre 5y agoI’d imagine foreign governments have more clever ways of getting info, like paying our research university professors to just go work for them.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoThey plant grad students on their research teams.
- jacquesm 5y agoExactly.
- slt2021 5y agoall key research is open and googleable. There is no need to do that.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoNo it isn't. Many schools do DARPA work on their own or in partnership with commercial operations. These frequently involve data with restricted access (not classified but still sensitive) and there are active espionage efforts to retrieve that information by taking advantage of lax academic security.
- jacquesm 5y agoOr pair them off with someone who will pass everything up to the mothership.
- moksly 5y agoI’m not sure what secret information the US thinks it has about nuclear science that you can’t just buy from Russia, India or China if you are a nation state. Though maybe not for $30,000, so if anything this article is more of an advertisement than a warning to others, isn’t it? Though often these kind of information spreads are more about public agencies showing the politicians that they aren’t a waste of money. Because what if that hadn’t been a honey pot, but ISIS or whatever!!! Best keep spending those surveillance billions.
- ianhawes 5y agoGenerally just the notion of doing this qualifies as a conspiracy against the United States. It’s one of the core statutes that Federal Prosecutors abuse to ensnare defendants.
- aahortwwy 5y agoHe allegedly initiated the whole thing, which is presumably a crime on its own. He allegedly sent a package to a foreign government offering to sell them classified info, and the foreign government gave that package to the FBI. EDIT: Also the initial package contained classified info, which doesn't help.
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoSuppose I tell you - give me $50,000 and I will assassinate the president. If i never had intention of doing so, and just meant to keep the money, i dont know what crime this would be. If you wanted to sue me foe fraud, you would be admitting to hiring an assasin
- rootusrootus 5y ago> Suppose I tell you - give me $50,000 and I will assassinate the president. There is a specific law for exactly that, however, making threats against the president. And those threats do not actually have to be communicated to the president in order for them to be illegal.
- aahortwwy 5y agoNot an expert, but I think different rules apply to holders of security clearances.
- lazide 5y agoWell, if anyone desired they could arrest you both for conspiracy, since ‘I was just joking’ is a pretty hard defense to prove. If you had a bunch of documents showing you were actually not intending to do it and just scamming, and they were all solidly timestamped maybe. If you had an independent co-conspirator who could attest, also maybe. I believe that generally folks don’t do this type of thing often because the type of person that would pay you $50k in this situation might also be very prone to just murder you if they thought you were playing with them hah Either way, no fun for anyone.
- deleted 5y ago
- jrochkind1 5y agoIf he didn't transmit sensitive information, I don't see how he could be convicted of doing so. Maybe some other lesser charge of some kind? (The idea of prosecuting such a person for fraud is hilarious but seems unlikely). I'm sure he wouldn't have a security clearance ever again.
- willis936 5y agoDon't you need standing in order to bring fraud charges? If so, you would have to be admitting that you solicited someone for government secrets, which is very illegal.
- jrochkind1 5y agoI mean, I guess it's not illegal if you were the FBI, which is what happened here? But yes, it seems a stretch. This sounds increasingly like a Coen brothers movie though, yeah.
- perl4ever 5y agoThe complaint was filed by FBI Special Agent Justin Van Tromp. That definitely sounds like a character in a Coen brothers movie. Something I've always wondered is, why are they all special agents? Is there some place they put all the ordinary agents? Are they the ones that just spend their whole careers in cubicles?
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Something I've always wondered is, why are they all special agents? Because that's the job title? > Is there some place they put all the ordinary agents? Training. That is, the lowest rank on the FBI agent career path is apparently “New Agent Trainee” and the next step up is “Special Agent”.
- perl4ever 5y agoOk, moving on...you know what the French call (or called) their nuclear deterrent? "Force de Frappe"!
- bitcoinmoney 5y agoWhat about getting assasinated? Surely that’s a motivation to deliver?
- TaylorAlexander 5y agoI don’t think it would be “legal trouble” he would have to worry about if he lied to and stole from foreign agents attempting to buy state secrets.
- sandworm101 5y agoNot reporting a 30k lump sum from a foreign agency, or even from a domestic one, would alone be enough for them to loose their security clearances. Then there is failure to report communications with a foreign agency. Once they travel to hand over physical object, even if blank, then there is probably enough for a conspiracy charge.
- rhcom2 5y agoI'm pretty sure that fits the definition of fraud.
- sterlind 5y agothey couldn't be charged for fraud. illegal activities don't get legal protection. this is why you can't e.g. sue your drug dealer for breach of contract because he didn't deliver those kilos of cocaine he promised. they could get them on tax evasion, though, assuming they didn't report their ill-gotten gains (which you can do without incriminating yourself, amazingly.)
- rhcom2 5y agoIn CA at least there are legal penalties for selling fake illegal drugs so some illegal activities get legal protection. https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/health-and-safety-code/hsc-sect-11355.html https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/health-and-safety-code/hsc-sect...
- pseingatl 5y agoMost American States have laws against selling ersatz narcotics.
- sterlind 5y agoI don't think that protects the buyers of the fake illegal drugs, it just allows prosecutors to charge dealers of fake illegal drugs as if they were the real deal. Under the Analog Act, fake drugs are considered as illegal as what they're represented to be (even if it's just baby powder.) I assume CA's law is the state counterpart of that Federal statute.
- pseingatl 5y agoThen it's mail and wire fraud.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]