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The treatment of communist guerillas by the South Korean government was substantially more humane (and far less bloody) than the treatment of civil society by t
by rsj_hn 5y ago
The treatment of communist guerillas by the South Korean government was substantially more humane (and far less bloody) than the treatment of civil society by the military junta ruling North Korea up to and including the leadership of Kim Tu-bong, who was himself dissapeared by Kim Il Sung in 1949. The problem here is that the hard-left stalinist policies that were widespread in the 30s-50s (and imitated by Mao) required a whole-scale attack on civil society:
* forced collectivization of agriculture
* attacks on schools, press, and bringing all instutions under the control of the party functionaries
* execution of monks, priests and missionaries and destruction of all religious organizations
* seizure of all private property.
Enforcing something like that requires a very bloody attack on the entire civil society:
"Concentration camps came into being in North Korea in the wake of the country's liberation from Japanese colonial rule at the end of World War II. Those persons considered "adversary class forces", such as landholders, Japanese collaborators, religious devotees and the families of people who migrated to the South, were rounded up and detained in large facilities. Additional camps were later established in the late 1950s and 60s in order to incarcerate the political victims of power struggles along with their families as well as overseas Koreans who migrated to the North. Later, the number of camps saw a marked increase with the cementing of the Kim Il Sung dictatorship and the Kim Jong-il succession."
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_inte...
You can argue that Stalinist dictorships destroying civil society are a good thing, but trying to claim that the US "invaded" South Korea with 300 troops is absurd.
> any improvement in those areas happened in South Korea and Taiwan rather recently, in the past thirty years or so.
There was no period of time in which North Korea was more free or respectful of human nature than the South, as evidenced by people continuing to flee to the South from the North, which is why the North had to build walls to keep people in.
It is because the government of the South did not launch a wholescale attack on human nature and provided more freedom than the North that it could evolve in directions that promoted greater individual liberty over time, whereas the North remained mired with famines, collectivization insanity, and repression.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoI've never heard of pre Korean war North Korea massacring tens of thousands of civilians like South Korea in the Jeju uprising, though obviously after the war human rights was often terrible. It's certainly possible it happened, but it doesn't change that the US assisted Rhee in killing leftists and then propped up his government for decades. >who was himself dissapeared by Kim Il Sung in 1949. 1957, supposedly for being part of a China and Soviet backed coup attempt. >but trying to claim that the US "invaded" South Korea with 300 troops is absurd. I'm not making that claim, the US had over 400,000 troops invade North Korea. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#UN_forces_invade_North_Korea_(September%E2%80%93October_1950) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#UN_forces_invade_No...
- rsj_hn 5y ago> I've never heard of pre Korean war North Korea massacring tens of thousands of civilians like South Korea in the Jeju uprising I recommend learning about the history of North Korea. Those concentration camps existed before the war. Do you really think the forced collectivization policies and murder of "class enemies", monks, priests, landlords, university professors, members of the press, etc., that killed 30 million in Russia and 55 million in China were miraculously bloodless in North Korea? It was the same set of Stalinist policies in all these places, with similar networks of gulags, summary executions, etc. > 1957, supposedly for being part of a China and Soviet backed coup attempt. He was dissapeared in 1949. No one knows what happened to him, but there are some rumors that he was killed in 57.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago>He was dissapeared in 1949. No one knows what happened to him, but there are some rumors that he was killed in 57. Third from the left in 1955. He was Chairman of the Supreme Assembly until 57. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Tu-bong#/media/File:%E5%BA%86%E7%A5%9D%E6%9C%9D%E9%B2%9C%E2%80%9C%E5%85%AB%E4%B8%80%E4%BA%94%E2%80%9D%E8%A7%A3%E6%94%BE%E5%8D%81%E5%91%A8%E5%B9%B4%E5%A4%A7%E4%BC%9A.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Tu-bong#/media/File:%E5%BA... Beyond that, "I recommend learning about the history, then you can guess that terrible things were happening" isn't really changing anything I said, which is primarily about how the US backed it's own military dictatorship in South Korea.