4 ms·

Bread and Circuses are exponentially easier to create than innovation. Most innovation is punished or ignored unless it is timed well until it is "rediscovered"

Bread and Circuses are exponentially easier to create than innovation. Most innovation is punished or ignored unless it is timed well until it is "rediscovered" when it is desperately needed. Bread and Circuses pairs with anything anywhere at any time. And when innovation saved the world from a global pandemic you guys are still arguing about the tiny miniscule risk of side effects of a game-changing vaccine rather than getting back on the curve here. So great, enjoy your brave new world of amusing yourselves to death. That seems to be about all we're good at anymore.

mistermann 5y ago
Perhaps if we were better at thinking we would be able to realize that the pushback on covid is a signal that something in the lower levels of the operating system may have some bugs in it. Instead, we react with simplistic heuristic narratives and emotion, and criticize others for a lack of intellectual capability. If the situation is not to our liking, perhaps we should consider addressing the root cause(s) so the same thing doesn't happen the next time a crisis pays us a visit.
- varelse 5y ago
  So this root cause of which you speak? You're not actually going to say what it is you're just going to complain about it and allude to it, am I right? And in doing so how are you anything but more Bread and Circuses? If the West had always been this risk averse with respect to science and technology, we wouldn't have gone to space let alone the Moon. We wouldn't have antibiotics and we probably wouldn't even have flight. So tell me how to restore America's healthy level of risk tolerance? Because taking medical advice from online pundits is incredibly risky and yet it's seen as safer than trusting science by a disturbingly large minority. And that's just one example of how badly we gauge risk. And to be fair, I have the same viewpoint about the irrational fear of nuclear power.
  - mistermann 5y ago
    I believe the root cause is human consciousness, in its current form....the very thing that wrote the message to which I am now replying. I believe absolutely that this is the root of all problems, and also that it can be addressed/upgraded.
  - crypto420 5y ago
    I wonder if its just about having competent adversaries? The West has always consisted of near-powers competing for resources and technology. A notable exception is modern history, where America hasn't had a serious technological adversary since the Space Race in the 1960s, and we've sort of slumped into this malaise. China appears to be a serious adversary now, but I don't think many Americans seriously possess the will or the skills to take on China.
    - nyokodo 5y ago
      > China appears to be a serious adversary now They’re an adversary and should be taken seriously however they are not the threat that the Soviet Union was. China has too many headwinds to reach true superpower status.
      - jjeaff 5y ago
        Interesting, what are some of those headwinds?
        nyokodo 5y ago
        > what are some of those headwinds? The one child policy was a resounding success and a total disaster as now they have the fastest aging population on the planet. This has lead to massively increasing labor costs and a hollowing out of their consumer base which then makes their economy export-dependent right when the consumer base of the developed world is hollowing out. They are reliant on energy imports to keep the lights on and those imports go through the first island chain full of their most vicious and ancient geopolitical enemies. They are reliant on food imports to feed their population that rely on the same global trade routes that are or are about to go completely to hell. Their historically unprecedented growth over the last couple of decades was fueled by the most irrationally exuberant money printing and debt driven bender that makes the USA look like a miserly spend-thrift.
adwn 5y ago
> exponentially easier Exponential in regards to which variable? Money? Time? Effort? Or did you simply mean "vastly"? This may be nitpicky, but we should expect people to get basic terminology right – at least on HN.
- varelse 5y ago
  And so the world ended but at least the pedantics were happy with the semantics of the Apocalypse.
  - dirtball_ 5y ago
    pedants* ;)
    - easywood 5y ago
      * :-)
6510 5y ago
I disagree with everything you said but I use to think along the same lines. Then one day, in a conversation about collective stupidity someone shared this observation: There are countless species in this world and all of them are doing just fine without the giant brain. A large part of humanity really just wants to live their live, reproduce, enjoy a meal, sleep properly, sit in the grass and look at the lake and the forest. We keep arguing that we have to think our way out of whatever the current situation is but you cant find a single problem that was not created by similar "solutions" for the previous "problem". It sort of blew my mind! It took a very large brained human to come up with the bread and circuses. It takes such very large brain to punish innovation or to have people ignore it. It takes an even larger brain to argue "what is desperately needed". You talk of saving the world but the world doesn't need to be saved. People are going to die sooner or later regardless. If you or me get to live a little bit longer that would be fantastic for you or for me.... but for the world? The world needs me for what exactly? We are the parasite devouring the host. I do get it! It seems terrible this "amusing yourselves to death" but why not amuse yourself until you die? Utopia is a world full of 300 year old grumpy old men? I'm sure we will get there eventually if we push hard enough but that will simply become the new problem that those few bright men with their large brains so desperately need to solve for us. I look at my cat sleeping on the sofa, why doesn't she get to have this complicated disposition? Why isn't she worried about the economy and innovation? What a joke, after the great collapse she will just go fishing, catch birds, spiders and mice, fight the neigbours, roll in the grass, look at the lake and the trees. At least, assuming we leave any of that behind. Think about it! The moon? mars? why not go to Antartica if you feel we ran out of self-made problems to solve? Antartica seems just as much umpf as Mars?
- FractalHQ 5y ago
  One thing my guru always helps remind me is to zoom out, and let go of my egos narrative. It’s been awhile since I’ve been able to attend therapy, and thus reminded to zoom out and take a breather. This comment did the trick, thanks! Mediation is a beautiful thing, and it helps me dig into it when paired with this mindset (or lack thereof).

mistermann 5y ago

Perhaps if we were better at thinking we would be able to realize that the pushback on covid is a signal that something in the lower levels of the operating system may have some bugs in it. Instead, we react with simplistic heuristic narratives and emotion, and criticize others for a lack of intellectual capability. If the situation is not to our liking, perhaps we should consider addressing the root cause(s) so the same thing doesn't happen the next time a crisis pays us a visit.

varelse 5y ago
So this root cause of which you speak? You're not actually going to say what it is you're just going to complain about it and allude to it, am I right? And in doing so how are you anything but more Bread and Circuses? If the West had always been this risk averse with respect to science and technology, we wouldn't have gone to space let alone the Moon. We wouldn't have antibiotics and we probably wouldn't even have flight. So tell me how to restore America's healthy level of risk tolerance? Because taking medical advice from online pundits is incredibly risky and yet it's seen as safer than trusting science by a disturbingly large minority. And that's just one example of how badly we gauge risk. And to be fair, I have the same viewpoint about the irrational fear of nuclear power.
- mistermann 5y ago
  I believe the root cause is human consciousness, in its current form....the very thing that wrote the message to which I am now replying. I believe absolutely that this is the root of all problems, and also that it can be addressed/upgraded.
- crypto420 5y ago
  I wonder if its just about having competent adversaries? The West has always consisted of near-powers competing for resources and technology. A notable exception is modern history, where America hasn't had a serious technological adversary since the Space Race in the 1960s, and we've sort of slumped into this malaise. China appears to be a serious adversary now, but I don't think many Americans seriously possess the will or the skills to take on China.
  - nyokodo 5y ago
    > China appears to be a serious adversary now They’re an adversary and should be taken seriously however they are not the threat that the Soviet Union was. China has too many headwinds to reach true superpower status.
    - jjeaff 5y ago
      Interesting, what are some of those headwinds?
      - nyokodo 5y ago
        > what are some of those headwinds? The one child policy was a resounding success and a total disaster as now they have the fastest aging population on the planet. This has lead to massively increasing labor costs and a hollowing out of their consumer base which then makes their economy export-dependent right when the consumer base of the developed world is hollowing out. They are reliant on energy imports to keep the lights on and those imports go through the first island chain full of their most vicious and ancient geopolitical enemies. They are reliant on food imports to feed their population that rely on the same global trade routes that are or are about to go completely to hell. Their historically unprecedented growth over the last couple of decades was fueled by the most irrationally exuberant money printing and debt driven bender that makes the USA look like a miserly spend-thrift.

adwn 5y ago

> exponentially easier Exponential in regards to which variable? Money? Time? Effort? Or did you simply mean "vastly"? This may be nitpicky, but we should expect people to get basic terminology right – at least on HN.

varelse 5y ago
And so the world ended but at least the pedantics were happy with the semantics of the Apocalypse.
- dirtball_ 5y ago
  pedants* ;)
  - easywood 5y ago
    * :-)

6510 5y ago

I disagree with everything you said but I use to think along the same lines. Then one day, in a conversation about collective stupidity someone shared this observation: There are countless species in this world and all of them are doing just fine without the giant brain. A large part of humanity really just wants to live their live, reproduce, enjoy a meal, sleep properly, sit in the grass and look at the lake and the forest. We keep arguing that we have to think our way out of whatever the current situation is but you cant find a single problem that was not created by similar "solutions" for the previous "problem". It sort of blew my mind! It took a very large brained human to come up with the bread and circuses. It takes such very large brain to punish innovation or to have people ignore it. It takes an even larger brain to argue "what is desperately needed". You talk of saving the world but the world doesn't need to be saved. People are going to die sooner or later regardless. If you or me get to live a little bit longer that would be fantastic for you or for me.... but for the world? The world needs me for what exactly? We are the parasite devouring the host. I do get it! It seems terrible this "amusing yourselves to death" but why not amuse yourself until you die? Utopia is a world full of 300 year old grumpy old men? I'm sure we will get there eventually if we push hard enough but that will simply become the new problem that those few bright men with their large brains so desperately need to solve for us. I look at my cat sleeping on the sofa, why doesn't she get to have this complicated disposition? Why isn't she worried about the economy and innovation? What a joke, after the great collapse she will just go fishing, catch birds, spiders and mice, fight the neigbours, roll in the grass, look at the lake and the trees. At least, assuming we leave any of that behind. Think about it! The moon? mars? why not go to Antartica if you feel we ran out of self-made problems to solve? Antartica seems just as much umpf as Mars?

FractalHQ 5y ago
One thing my guru always helps remind me is to zoom out, and let go of my egos narrative. It’s been awhile since I’ve been able to attend therapy, and thus reminded to zoom out and take a breather. This comment did the trick, thanks! Mediation is a beautiful thing, and it helps me dig into it when paired with this mindset (or lack thereof).