6 ms·

> Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tin

by tomp 5y ago

> Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tiny amount of petrol you pour into. You have to recharge 3x just to mow the whole (moderately sized) lawn. Hopefully newer models are better, but given the slow progress of car batteries, I doubt they're much better.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Yes, I use them every week and they're great. They've come a long way in the past few years. If your only experience is from several years ago then it's nothing like modern tools. Definitely don't have to recharge to mow an entire lawn, or even recharge every week. I expect they'll progress even more in the next few years before this law goes into effect.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-pollution/index.cfm https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-pollution...
- giantg2 5y ago
  And you think that a piece of equiptment that uses a quart of gas every other week is a significant contributor? Why not focus on where the real progress can be made (or the real cost contributors) instead of forcing a scenario with poor cost benefit tradeoff.
  - michael1999 5y ago
    I think you misunderstand the statistics. Modern cars are so clean that the two-strokes powering lawn tools really are most of the smog in some cities. Getting rid of them will be a big improvement for many people.
    - voakbasda 5y ago
      Source?
      - wtallis 5y ago
        From a CARB publication dated 2017 (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/small-engines-california https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/small-engines-c...): > In the early 2020s, however, total smog-forming emissions from small engines are projected to exceed those from passenger cars in the South Coast Air Basin because passenger car emissions will continue to decrease. By 2031, small engine emissions will be more than twice those from passenger cars. And from the bill itself (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1346 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...): >In 2020, California daily NOx and ROG emissions from SORE were higher than emissions from light-duty passenger cars. SORE emitted an average of 16.8 tons per day of NOx and 125 tons per day of ROG. Without further regulatory action, those emission levels are expected to increase with increasing numbers of SORE in California. Regulations of emissions from SORE have not been as stringent as regulations of other engines, and one hour of operation of a commercial leaf blower can emit as much ROG plus NOx as driving 1,100 miles in a new passenger vehicle.
        giantg2 5y ago
        Ok, so that's a forecast. Not something happening now (that you claim). And how about planes, generation plants, etc?
        wtallis 5y ago
        I didn't claim it's happening now. The state legislature of California did: "The Legislature finds and declares all of the following..." I don't know for sure that the legislators who drafted this law verified that the predictions from several years ago have held up based on newer data, but it's really not much of a stretch think that they actually did check with the experts. As for airplanes, power plants and other large-scale users of fossil fuels: like cars and unlike gas-powered lawn tools, they tend to more carefully manage combustion to burn cleaner, and power plants can treat exhaust (like cars do with catalytic converters). So those sources are cleaner per gallon of fuel than a gas-powered leaf blower, and they don't exhaust quite as close to living, breathing people.
- salawat 5y ago
  No, the real problem is no one wants to corral the chief contributors, so people try to go after the little people first who can't hire lobbyists to babysit legislators.
- ansible 5y ago
  We (our entire society) should really be reconsidering lawns and "attractive lawns" in general. The care and maintenance of Kentucky bluegrass is a tremendous drain on resources, a significant cause of pollution (air and water), and destroys the habitats of native plants, insects and animals. It is just bad all around.
  - navmed 5y ago
    This, this, this. It's ridiculous that we emulate British royalty who started this trend to show how rich they were by not needing useful crop.
- tomp 5y ago
  Maybe we should instead tax CO2/fossil fuels, and let people decide how they change their behaviour? (In particular, there is a usecase for artificially made fuel from air-captured CO2 - superior energy density and durability compared to batteries.)
  - wtallis 5y ago
    This law isn't about reducing CO2 emissions. It's more specifically about reducing the forms of pollution that are disproportionately produced by small engines, which are often two-stroke and (AFAIK) never have catalytic converters. Taxing gasoline would be a failed attempt at a one size fits all solution, when there are very different categories of engines burning that fuel with drastically different emissions profiles.
tenuousemphasis 5y ago
I have a 10k sq foot lot and can mow the entire thing in one charge of the battery with my Ego mower. It sounds like you're the one who's never actually used one. They also have hot swappable batteries.
zwily 5y ago
They wouldn’t recharge to finish a lawn… they’d keep a bunch of batteries on their truck they’d recharge every night.
wrycoder 5y ago
I have a Milwaukee leaf blower with an M18 battery. It lasts about fifteen minutes. Then 45 min recharge.

by tomp 5y ago

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Yes, I use them every week and they're great. They've come a long way in the past few years. If your only experience is from several years ago then it's nothing like modern tools. Definitely don't have to recharge to mow an entire lawn, or even recharge every week. I expect they'll progress even more in the next few years before this law goes into effect.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-pollution/index.cfm https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-pollution...

giantg2 5y ago
And you think that a piece of equiptment that uses a quart of gas every other week is a significant contributor? Why not focus on where the real progress can be made (or the real cost contributors) instead of forcing a scenario with poor cost benefit tradeoff.
- michael1999 5y ago
  I think you misunderstand the statistics. Modern cars are so clean that the two-strokes powering lawn tools really are most of the smog in some cities. Getting rid of them will be a big improvement for many people.
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    Source?
    - wtallis 5y ago
      From a CARB publication dated 2017 (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/small-engines-california https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/small-engines-c...): > In the early 2020s, however, total smog-forming emissions from small engines are projected to exceed those from passenger cars in the South Coast Air Basin because passenger car emissions will continue to decrease. By 2031, small engine emissions will be more than twice those from passenger cars. And from the bill itself (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1346 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...): >In 2020, California daily NOx and ROG emissions from SORE were higher than emissions from light-duty passenger cars. SORE emitted an average of 16.8 tons per day of NOx and 125 tons per day of ROG. Without further regulatory action, those emission levels are expected to increase with increasing numbers of SORE in California. Regulations of emissions from SORE have not been as stringent as regulations of other engines, and one hour of operation of a commercial leaf blower can emit as much ROG plus NOx as driving 1,100 miles in a new passenger vehicle.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        Ok, so that's a forecast. Not something happening now (that you claim). And how about planes, generation plants, etc?
        wtallis 5y ago
        I didn't claim it's happening now. The state legislature of California did: "The Legislature finds and declares all of the following..." I don't know for sure that the legislators who drafted this law verified that the predictions from several years ago have held up based on newer data, but it's really not much of a stretch think that they actually did check with the experts. As for airplanes, power plants and other large-scale users of fossil fuels: like cars and unlike gas-powered lawn tools, they tend to more carefully manage combustion to burn cleaner, and power plants can treat exhaust (like cars do with catalytic converters). So those sources are cleaner per gallon of fuel than a gas-powered leaf blower, and they don't exhaust quite as close to living, breathing people.
salawat 5y ago
No, the real problem is no one wants to corral the chief contributors, so people try to go after the little people first who can't hire lobbyists to babysit legislators.
ansible 5y ago
We (our entire society) should really be reconsidering lawns and "attractive lawns" in general. The care and maintenance of Kentucky bluegrass is a tremendous drain on resources, a significant cause of pollution (air and water), and destroys the habitats of native plants, insects and animals. It is just bad all around.
- navmed 5y ago
  This, this, this. It's ridiculous that we emulate British royalty who started this trend to show how rich they were by not needing useful crop.
tomp 5y ago
Maybe we should instead tax CO2/fossil fuels, and let people decide how they change their behaviour? (In particular, there is a usecase for artificially made fuel from air-captured CO2 - superior energy density and durability compared to batteries.)
- wtallis 5y ago
  This law isn't about reducing CO2 emissions. It's more specifically about reducing the forms of pollution that are disproportionately produced by small engines, which are often two-stroke and (AFAIK) never have catalytic converters. Taxing gasoline would be a failed attempt at a one size fits all solution, when there are very different categories of engines burning that fuel with drastically different emissions profiles.

tenuousemphasis 5y ago

I have a 10k sq foot lot and can mow the entire thing in one charge of the battery with my Ego mower. It sounds like you're the one who's never actually used one. They also have hot swappable batteries.

zwily 5y ago

They wouldn’t recharge to finish a lawn… they’d keep a bunch of batteries on their truck they’d recharge every night.

wrycoder 5y ago

I have a Milwaukee leaf blower with an M18 battery. It lasts about fifteen minutes. Then 45 min recharge.