4 ms·

How would you respond to this point then by the author? >If every cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich were grounds for canceling talks, hundreds of profess

How would you respond to this point then by the author? >If every cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich were grounds for canceling talks, hundreds of professors—and thousands of op-ed columnists—would no longer be welcome on campus.

morelisp 5y ago
It's a weak argument. First, there's a big gap between "canceling talks" and "no longer welcome on campus." Secondly, it's not like it was a recanted off-the-cuff remark or an ill-advised mailing list post dredged up from his grad student days - he published it in a national periodical[1] not two months ago. This at least suggests he's not a good communicator. [1] With all the usual caveats about Newsweek today being a weird semi-propaganda arm of The Community and not particularly reputable despite its brand and reach. If that's the place you go to get published, maybe that's already a sign you don't have the banger essay you thought you did.
- rscoots 5y ago
  You'll admit that the category of 'anyone who has compared mainstream American politics to Nazism in a published article' is a pretty wide net though? Although we find it distasteful it seems to be a pretty common refrain/analogy of those in politics & media.
  - morelisp 5y ago
    > You'll admit that the category of 'anyone who has compared mainstream American politics to Nazism in a published article' is a pretty wide net though? No, I won't. "Published an article in a national periodical about mainstream American politics at all" is already a really small net! "Did it in the past two months" vanishingly less so! "And is giving a PR speech for their university" and I bet we're down to population size ~1. I think universities as a whole would be a lot better off if they stopped considering this body of op-ed-cum-think-tank-writers pretending to be journalists worthy of serious attention at all, Nazi comparisons or no. And I think it says a lot about Mounk's own social circles that he considers this behavior de rigueur.
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      .
      - morelisp 5y ago
        > a very similar situation You're saying university DEI initiatives are "a very similar situation" to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. Do you really think this? Not only no difference in kind, but close in degree?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - rscoots 5y ago
      You seem to be adding in additional, somewhat frivolous conditions that none of the parties involved even alluded to. So yes that might drive down the number to a conveniently hard-to-research amount. Let's start with your "2 months" figure. Who cited that as part of the reason for the disinvitation?
      - morelisp 5y ago
        The timeframe and forum makes it fair to characterize this as his current, considered, strongly-held opinion. That has bearing on whether we consider this a situation of "we disinvited him because we don't want our PR handled by people currently advancing opinions contra political sensitive aspects of our university admissions policy" vs. "we disinvite everyone who made a cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich" (Mounk's characterization).
        rscoots 5y ago
        That's what you think, but I'm asking who at MIT has taken that position re timeframe that you have evidence of?
        5y ago

morelisp 5y ago

It's a weak argument. First, there's a big gap between "canceling talks" and "no longer welcome on campus." Secondly, it's not like it was a recanted off-the-cuff remark or an ill-advised mailing list post dredged up from his grad student days - he published it in a national periodical[1] not two months ago. This at least suggests he's not a good communicator. [1] With all the usual caveats about Newsweek today being a weird semi-propaganda arm of The Community and not particularly reputable despite its brand and reach. If that's the place you go to get published, maybe that's already a sign you don't have the banger essay you thought you did.

rscoots 5y ago
You'll admit that the category of 'anyone who has compared mainstream American politics to Nazism in a published article' is a pretty wide net though? Although we find it distasteful it seems to be a pretty common refrain/analogy of those in politics & media.
- morelisp 5y ago
  > You'll admit that the category of 'anyone who has compared mainstream American politics to Nazism in a published article' is a pretty wide net though? No, I won't. "Published an article in a national periodical about mainstream American politics at all" is already a really small net! "Did it in the past two months" vanishingly less so! "And is giving a PR speech for their university" and I bet we're down to population size ~1. I think universities as a whole would be a lot better off if they stopped considering this body of op-ed-cum-think-tank-writers pretending to be journalists worthy of serious attention at all, Nazi comparisons or no. And I think it says a lot about Mounk's own social circles that he considers this behavior de rigueur.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    .
    - morelisp 5y ago
      > a very similar situation You're saying university DEI initiatives are "a very similar situation" to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. Do you really think this? Not only no difference in kind, but close in degree?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - rscoots 5y ago
    You seem to be adding in additional, somewhat frivolous conditions that none of the parties involved even alluded to. So yes that might drive down the number to a conveniently hard-to-research amount. Let's start with your "2 months" figure. Who cited that as part of the reason for the disinvitation?
    - morelisp 5y ago
      The timeframe and forum makes it fair to characterize this as his current, considered, strongly-held opinion. That has bearing on whether we consider this a situation of "we disinvited him because we don't want our PR handled by people currently advancing opinions contra political sensitive aspects of our university admissions policy" vs. "we disinvite everyone who made a cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich" (Mounk's characterization).
      - rscoots 5y ago
        That's what you think, but I'm asking who at MIT has taken that position re timeframe that you have evidence of?
        5y ago