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Both sides are to blame. I stand by my statement. Any politics directed at vaccines is foolish and unscientific. People should acknowledge that mistakes were

Both sides are to blame. I stand by my statement. Any politics directed at vaccines is foolish and unscientific. People should acknowledge that mistakes were made by the government and officials with their foolish statements. CNN and Fox are equal partners in the hysteria. People need to remember the goal is to eliminate the threat, not get everyone vaccinated. These are two different things. Ignoring post-COVID immunity studies just makes officials look unscientific and doesn't contribute to the final goal. Being unscientific puts you at the same level as hucksters. Getting rid of health care workers that risked it all and put a huge strain on their families is just plain dumb and ungrateful. The idea they don't know the whole story is baffling.

ineptech 5y ago
> People need to remember the goal is to eliminate the threat, not get everyone vaccinated. For you perhaps, but some people have the terminal goal of avoiding vaccination, even if that increases the threat. That is why the government is doing anything and everything, including FUD, to push vaccines down peoples' throats. Their actions will always seem irrational if you ignore that.
- protomyth 5y ago
  FUD just pushes people away. If you cannot act in a truthful manner you legitimize their beliefs. When you know better and give up on truth, you lose. The single simplest summation of the concept of evil is "the end justifies the means".
  - ineptech 5y ago
    > summation of the concept of evil That's a rather strong way to describe someone who refuses to implement a policy you like. You might be right, a natural immunity exemption might be sound policy. I personally tend to agree. But you can't make the case for it by pretending that opposition to it is based in ignorance or evil, if the opposition is due to the concern that people who would abuse it and the result would be more deaths.
    - protomyth 5y ago
      I can at the point they deviate from the science and truth of the situation. When you concede truth, then you have no basis to implement a public policy. Emotion has no place in a fight against a disease and feeding the emotional argument of anti-vaxers with actual talking points is counterproductive. Fear of abuse is a poor argument because both solutions will be abused (fake vaccine cards are already a thing).
      - ineptech 5y ago
        This sounds like a florid way of saying, "I saw a pro-vax lefty lie about something on TV the other day." Okay, feel free to ignore that one guy, but to argue against the vaccine mandate position generally you have to engage with the strongest arguments for it, not the weakest.
        protomyth 5y ago
        Ok, once again, I am arguing against mandating vaccines for people who already had COVID. The science and studies say they already have a better immunity than the vaccine. This lack of science is troubling. That is not an anti-vax position. Its a vax if you haven't had COVID and don't if you have. This is the same exact advice when talking about other diseases like measles.
- xkbarkar 5y ago
  0 logic in mandating vaccines as vaccinated still spread the virus. So no benefit for anyone else than the wearer( if you will ) and mandating injections serves no purpose of protecting others. The seatbelt actually does protect others. An unbuckled backseat passangers will smash a frontseat one in a collision. The covid-19 shots do not protect other though. Comparing seatbelts wearing to covid-19 vaccine is incredibly innacurate. Vaccine mandates are now down the path of forbidding us to choose what we do with our own bodies. This is a very, very dangerous path. Punishing nurses that have aquired immunity via natural infection will hopefully be considered criminal in a not too far away future. Fortunately there are very few places in the world that thinks that doing so is a good idea.
bayesian_horse 5y ago
The "both sides" arguments are total BS here. Fox News clearly entertains lies and factually untrue statements, while actively discouraging the vaccine. You may not like that CNN endorses vaccination, but you'd be hard pressed to catch them in even a simple incorrect statement, much less an intentional lie, let alone at the same order of magnitude. It is hard not to endorse vaccination if you understand the science.
- rkk3 5y ago
  Here's a prominent example of the left politicizing the vaccine... "If Trump tells us to take it [The Vaccine], I won't" - Kamala Harris https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-on-coronavirus-vaccine/ https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-o...
  - ineptech 5y ago
    That's egregiously misleading. In context she clearly said that she would take it, but only when scientists say it's safe, not when Trump says so. (I will concede that, in implying that Trump would push people to get a vaccine before it was ready, she was wildly wrong.)
    - rkk3 5y ago
      > I will concede that, in implying that Trump would push people to get a vaccine before it was ready, she was wildly wrong. Exactly, she (the left) also politicized the vaccine. QED
      - bayesian_horse 5y ago
        She wouldn't have needed to politicize health policy at all if Trump and his administration had shown a basic level of competence and honesty around that topic. The fear that Trump might push an unproven, unsatisfactory vaccine, was legitimate. Doing so would have damaged the actual vaccination campaign immensely.
  - 5y ago

ineptech 5y ago

> People need to remember the goal is to eliminate the threat, not get everyone vaccinated. For you perhaps, but some people have the terminal goal of avoiding vaccination, even if that increases the threat. That is why the government is doing anything and everything, including FUD, to push vaccines down peoples' throats. Their actions will always seem irrational if you ignore that.

protomyth 5y ago
FUD just pushes people away. If you cannot act in a truthful manner you legitimize their beliefs. When you know better and give up on truth, you lose. The single simplest summation of the concept of evil is "the end justifies the means".
- ineptech 5y ago
  > summation of the concept of evil That's a rather strong way to describe someone who refuses to implement a policy you like. You might be right, a natural immunity exemption might be sound policy. I personally tend to agree. But you can't make the case for it by pretending that opposition to it is based in ignorance or evil, if the opposition is due to the concern that people who would abuse it and the result would be more deaths.
  - protomyth 5y ago
    I can at the point they deviate from the science and truth of the situation. When you concede truth, then you have no basis to implement a public policy. Emotion has no place in a fight against a disease and feeding the emotional argument of anti-vaxers with actual talking points is counterproductive. Fear of abuse is a poor argument because both solutions will be abused (fake vaccine cards are already a thing).
    - ineptech 5y ago
      This sounds like a florid way of saying, "I saw a pro-vax lefty lie about something on TV the other day." Okay, feel free to ignore that one guy, but to argue against the vaccine mandate position generally you have to engage with the strongest arguments for it, not the weakest.
      - protomyth 5y ago
        Ok, once again, I am arguing against mandating vaccines for people who already had COVID. The science and studies say they already have a better immunity than the vaccine. This lack of science is troubling. That is not an anti-vax position. Its a vax if you haven't had COVID and don't if you have. This is the same exact advice when talking about other diseases like measles.
xkbarkar 5y ago
0 logic in mandating vaccines as vaccinated still spread the virus. So no benefit for anyone else than the wearer( if you will ) and mandating injections serves no purpose of protecting others. The seatbelt actually does protect others. An unbuckled backseat passangers will smash a frontseat one in a collision. The covid-19 shots do not protect other though. Comparing seatbelts wearing to covid-19 vaccine is incredibly innacurate. Vaccine mandates are now down the path of forbidding us to choose what we do with our own bodies. This is a very, very dangerous path. Punishing nurses that have aquired immunity via natural infection will hopefully be considered criminal in a not too far away future. Fortunately there are very few places in the world that thinks that doing so is a good idea.

bayesian_horse 5y ago

The "both sides" arguments are total BS here. Fox News clearly entertains lies and factually untrue statements, while actively discouraging the vaccine. You may not like that CNN endorses vaccination, but you'd be hard pressed to catch them in even a simple incorrect statement, much less an intentional lie, let alone at the same order of magnitude. It is hard not to endorse vaccination if you understand the science.

rkk3 5y ago
Here's a prominent example of the left politicizing the vaccine... "If Trump tells us to take it [The Vaccine], I won't" - Kamala Harris https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-on-coronavirus-vaccine/ https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-o...
- ineptech 5y ago
  That's egregiously misleading. In context she clearly said that she would take it, but only when scientists say it's safe, not when Trump says so. (I will concede that, in implying that Trump would push people to get a vaccine before it was ready, she was wildly wrong.)
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > I will concede that, in implying that Trump would push people to get a vaccine before it was ready, she was wildly wrong. Exactly, she (the left) also politicized the vaccine. QED
    - bayesian_horse 5y ago
      She wouldn't have needed to politicize health policy at all if Trump and his administration had shown a basic level of competence and honesty around that topic. The fear that Trump might push an unproven, unsatisfactory vaccine, was legitimate. Doing so would have damaged the actual vaccination campaign immensely.
- 5y ago