7 ms·

The etymology suddenly makes me wonder whether living somewhere in which your "tribe" (race, etc.) is not reflected in the majority might be the cause of many a

The etymology suddenly makes me wonder whether living somewhere in which your "tribe" (race, etc.) is not reflected in the majority might be the cause of many anxiety disorders. It certainly makes me feel anxious. I don't think anyone should apologize for wanting to live somewhere that's relatively homogeneous, with only a small number of assimilating outsiders.

whateveracct 5y ago
> I don't think anyone should apologize for wanting to live somewhere that's relatively homogeneous The problem tends to come in when someone's area is becoming less homogenous - which in turn spurs hatred and a desire to expel others. Feel free to move and find said homogenous place, but this desire doesn't give you the right to banish others who are just living their free lives.
jollybean 5y ago
Those are both good insights. Living around the world, I've felt a baseline anxiety while being surrounded by 'other' there's no doubt about it. Being surrounded by 'people like you' feels like 'home' and that anxiety goes away. Very obviously the same reason people in those situations often move to sub-communities in those regions where there are like-minded peers. The term 'xenophobia' I think is misapplied in too many contexts. I suggest people are more often ethnocentric than they are xenophobic.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  > Being surrounded by 'people like you' feels like 'home' and that anxiety goes away. What's familiar feels safe. Maybe the long term `solution` to living among/with many different tribe members is to mix more and more people of different origin/background/culture so that it feels normal and familiar (thus safe) to be surrounded by people who are different (actually they wouldn't be different anymore). But somehow I don't think it's easy to set up the condition for such an environment. I think mixing implies the blending of different cultures and it leads to a new mono culture made up of common or assimilated characteristics (or one culture taking it all with just some minor details from other cultures left) rather than a patchwork of strongly differentiated (untainted) cultures. This is the great question of "how do we live together ?". edit: I think there should be a warning about my comment. When I was young I heard a similar reasoning used to justify `racism` because it would seem it's inherent to the humane nature. The adult I heard saying that was a complete racist and he didn't hold this explanation/theory/outlook to find how to live with others but to justify his dislike of others.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    'Mono culture' is what happens when people from a variety of groups do live together. They adopt 'basic civic values' - and all cultural artifacts are thrown out the door, because they can't continue to exist. Those people go to Starbucks. When people have actual distinctions from one another - this is where actual 'diversity' exists. People have attitudes, opinions, and especially practices that are stronger and more resilient. This is why Starbucks can't make headway in Italy -> their local dynamics around coffee are stronger than the power of the Starbucks marketing team. Though McDonald's does exist there, it's in a totally different capacity. (FYI Nothing wrong with either of those companies, I'm alluding to the notion of those things being more universal and a more fundamental part of culture, which 'fast food' is in the US, and not Italy). I really do believe we can live together, and that we mostly do - just fine. There's some work to do with equal access and opportunity - but by and large most of the advanced world is fair to most people. Good points though.
- bittercynic 5y ago
  I don't think this is universal, or at least it isn't my experience. Context: I'm white, only understand English. At Whole Foods most people look like me, and I understand the snippets of conversations as I pass by. It is overall a stressful experience being there. When I shop at 99 Ranch, I generally can't understand other shoppers' conversations, and I don't look like the other shoppers. For some reason it is much more peaceful, easier to share a smile with others as we pass by, and just overall a more positive experience. Just a personal example going the other direction. I don't think there's any deep meaning here.
  - InvaderFizz 5y ago
    I would hazard a guess that you are very high on the introvert scale and that explains the situation you presented. In Whole Foods, you might be expected to answer a question or inquiry since your appearance says that you would understand the query. You might even be expected to engage in banter. In 99 Ranch, your appearance means that the chances of you understanding a question in the interlocutor's native tongue are approximately zero. Therefore they are unlikely to ask. There is very little chance of an attempt at conversation. Your difference and assumed lack of ability to interact with in any meaningful way act as a firewall, giving you the same comfort you would derive if the store were completely empty and automated to where you didn't have to interact with other humans. Not a dig, just an analysis and projecting of my own situation and thoughts on it. I live in Mexico and present as a very obvious gringo. I'm not an extrovert, when I encounter a situation where I really would rather not interact, I can play up the language barrier. My Spanish is mediocre to begin with, so that helps.
    - bittercynic 5y ago
      Interesting take - you're not far off the mark. There is at least one other factor, though. At Whole Foods, at least the one near me, a large fraction of the conversation snippets I overhear are complaints, expressions of anxiety, and generally expressions of unhappiness. At 99 Ranch I generally can't understand what people are saying, but on average people's emotions seem to range from neutral to positive. My perceptions may not be a complete picture of reality, but I think they're also not completely detached from reality.
beardedman 5y ago
> It certainly makes me feel anxious. Where are you from / experiencing this?
totetsu 5y ago
Living in Japan for more than 5 years I've never felt anxious about being surrounded by people not like me. Maybe because I come from a country where all kinds of people live. My idea of my tribe is quite broad.. I don't think it's hard set thing. It depends on one's own view of humanity. I've certainly made some old ladies anxious with my presence at the start of COVID however. Lack of language skills, and all the results of that is more a contributor to difficulties of being a minority.
Nasrudith 5y ago
That doesn't align with rates of anxiety disorders though. If it even exists it blends with background noise. Really the idea that the people "like you" by some superficial shared variable are actually more like you is fundamentally a lie. More familiar but the individual variation is far more powerful than just "born in Bavaria".

whateveracct 5y ago

> I don't think anyone should apologize for wanting to live somewhere that's relatively homogeneous The problem tends to come in when someone's area is becoming less homogenous - which in turn spurs hatred and a desire to expel others. Feel free to move and find said homogenous place, but this desire doesn't give you the right to banish others who are just living their free lives.

jollybean 5y ago

Those are both good insights. Living around the world, I've felt a baseline anxiety while being surrounded by 'other' there's no doubt about it. Being surrounded by 'people like you' feels like 'home' and that anxiety goes away. Very obviously the same reason people in those situations often move to sub-communities in those regions where there are like-minded peers. The term 'xenophobia' I think is misapplied in too many contexts. I suggest people are more often ethnocentric than they are xenophobic.

johnchristopher 5y ago
> Being surrounded by 'people like you' feels like 'home' and that anxiety goes away. What's familiar feels safe. Maybe the long term `solution` to living among/with many different tribe members is to mix more and more people of different origin/background/culture so that it feels normal and familiar (thus safe) to be surrounded by people who are different (actually they wouldn't be different anymore). But somehow I don't think it's easy to set up the condition for such an environment. I think mixing implies the blending of different cultures and it leads to a new mono culture made up of common or assimilated characteristics (or one culture taking it all with just some minor details from other cultures left) rather than a patchwork of strongly differentiated (untainted) cultures. This is the great question of "how do we live together ?". edit: I think there should be a warning about my comment. When I was young I heard a similar reasoning used to justify `racism` because it would seem it's inherent to the humane nature. The adult I heard saying that was a complete racist and he didn't hold this explanation/theory/outlook to find how to live with others but to justify his dislike of others.
- jollybean 5y ago
  'Mono culture' is what happens when people from a variety of groups do live together. They adopt 'basic civic values' - and all cultural artifacts are thrown out the door, because they can't continue to exist. Those people go to Starbucks. When people have actual distinctions from one another - this is where actual 'diversity' exists. People have attitudes, opinions, and especially practices that are stronger and more resilient. This is why Starbucks can't make headway in Italy -> their local dynamics around coffee are stronger than the power of the Starbucks marketing team. Though McDonald's does exist there, it's in a totally different capacity. (FYI Nothing wrong with either of those companies, I'm alluding to the notion of those things being more universal and a more fundamental part of culture, which 'fast food' is in the US, and not Italy). I really do believe we can live together, and that we mostly do - just fine. There's some work to do with equal access and opportunity - but by and large most of the advanced world is fair to most people. Good points though.
bittercynic 5y ago
I don't think this is universal, or at least it isn't my experience. Context: I'm white, only understand English. At Whole Foods most people look like me, and I understand the snippets of conversations as I pass by. It is overall a stressful experience being there. When I shop at 99 Ranch, I generally can't understand other shoppers' conversations, and I don't look like the other shoppers. For some reason it is much more peaceful, easier to share a smile with others as we pass by, and just overall a more positive experience. Just a personal example going the other direction. I don't think there's any deep meaning here.
- InvaderFizz 5y ago
  I would hazard a guess that you are very high on the introvert scale and that explains the situation you presented. In Whole Foods, you might be expected to answer a question or inquiry since your appearance says that you would understand the query. You might even be expected to engage in banter. In 99 Ranch, your appearance means that the chances of you understanding a question in the interlocutor's native tongue are approximately zero. Therefore they are unlikely to ask. There is very little chance of an attempt at conversation. Your difference and assumed lack of ability to interact with in any meaningful way act as a firewall, giving you the same comfort you would derive if the store were completely empty and automated to where you didn't have to interact with other humans. Not a dig, just an analysis and projecting of my own situation and thoughts on it. I live in Mexico and present as a very obvious gringo. I'm not an extrovert, when I encounter a situation where I really would rather not interact, I can play up the language barrier. My Spanish is mediocre to begin with, so that helps.
  - bittercynic 5y ago
    Interesting take - you're not far off the mark. There is at least one other factor, though. At Whole Foods, at least the one near me, a large fraction of the conversation snippets I overhear are complaints, expressions of anxiety, and generally expressions of unhappiness. At 99 Ranch I generally can't understand what people are saying, but on average people's emotions seem to range from neutral to positive. My perceptions may not be a complete picture of reality, but I think they're also not completely detached from reality.

beardedman 5y ago

> It certainly makes me feel anxious. Where are you from / experiencing this?

totetsu 5y ago

Living in Japan for more than 5 years I've never felt anxious about being surrounded by people not like me. Maybe because I come from a country where all kinds of people live. My idea of my tribe is quite broad.. I don't think it's hard set thing. It depends on one's own view of humanity. I've certainly made some old ladies anxious with my presence at the start of COVID however. Lack of language skills, and all the results of that is more a contributor to difficulties of being a minority.

Nasrudith 5y ago

That doesn't align with rates of anxiety disorders though. If it even exists it blends with background noise. Really the idea that the people "like you" by some superficial shared variable are actually more like you is fundamentally a lie. More familiar but the individual variation is far more powerful than just "born in Bavaria".