4 ms·

> Isn’t it just easier [...] to require people to [do what I think is right] rather than debate [...]? - said every soviet officers ever. You might not believe

> Isn’t it just easier [...] to require people to [do what I think is right] rather than debate [...]? - said every soviet officers ever. You might not believe in democracy, but this is still a better system than autocracy. Even if you were right (hint: you're not), this is setting a very dangerous precedent than can and will be abused down the line.

bayesian_horse 5y ago
What a BS argument. It is indeed easier to verify vaccination than natural immunity. That is a cold hard fact, and people who contradict it don't understand how complicated the testing is or how many health providers and labs there are. Legal requirements are shaped by such "conveniences" all the time. Of course you wouldn't need a driver's license if you could argue with a police officer at a traffic stop that you are qualified to drive, had no DOIs etc. It's a lot easier though to require a driving test and a current license. Same thing with the vaccination.
- labawi 5y ago
  Would you please educate me on > how complicated the testing is or how many health providers and labs there are. AFAIK, you can actually test blood reactivity to virus protein, proving a positive. I'm not sure how you would prove that a person actually got vaccinated and it wasn't the case of doctor pouring vaccine down the drain, someone else taking the vaccine instead etc.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    I don't have time to explain to you the intricacies of antibody testing. However, it is much more difficult than to standardize on what antigens and what titres to pick and how to correlate that for a "positive" result. Testing for neutralizing antibodies is even harder, because it involves isolating the antibodies and testing them against live virus particles and a cell culture. And yes, standardizing such testing, as complicated and expensive as it is, across all the relevant labs across the country would be a bureaucratic nightmare. I'm not going to engage with your bullshit about doctors faking vaccinations.
    - labawi 5y ago
      Iceland accepts either vaccine or previous infection certificates[1][2]. They seemed to handle covid well, being fairly strict. Fake vaccinations[3], including fake certificates are popular, especially when they are forced. If you want a fake vaccination, I know a guy who knows a guy. Point is - it's not bullshit. Yes, checking certificates is easier than testing for antibodies. While harder, I still think antibody tests would have less false positives and I most certainly don't think the relative easiness to administer vaccines is a good reason to require everyone to take them, even when they are more immune then those who only got the vaccine. A friend had an antibody test as he already had covid and didn't want to go for a vaccine. It was no big deal. [1] https://www.covid.is/sub-categories/travel-to-and-within-iceland https://www.covid.is/sub-categories/travel-to-and-within-ice... [2] https://www.landlaeknir.is/um-embaettid/greinar/grein/item43709/certificates-regarding-previous-covid-19-infection-that-are-accepted-at-the-border-in-iceland-from-10-december-2020 https://www.landlaeknir.is/um-embaettid/greinar/grein/item43... [3] https://text.npr.org/1026863219 https://text.npr.org/1026863219
      - bayesian_horse 5y ago
        Did you notice that Iceland is a slightly smaller country, with probably quite a bit fewer medical labs? Also an island, with islands generally having an easier time with all the pandemic restrictions stuff? I don't even know how Iceland's health system is organized. But it would be a good bet that it is light years ahead of the mess of the 52 states plus territories and whatever! Much different story.

bayesian_horse 5y ago

What a BS argument. It is indeed easier to verify vaccination than natural immunity. That is a cold hard fact, and people who contradict it don't understand how complicated the testing is or how many health providers and labs there are. Legal requirements are shaped by such "conveniences" all the time. Of course you wouldn't need a driver's license if you could argue with a police officer at a traffic stop that you are qualified to drive, had no DOIs etc. It's a lot easier though to require a driving test and a current license. Same thing with the vaccination.

labawi 5y ago
Would you please educate me on > how complicated the testing is or how many health providers and labs there are. AFAIK, you can actually test blood reactivity to virus protein, proving a positive. I'm not sure how you would prove that a person actually got vaccinated and it wasn't the case of doctor pouring vaccine down the drain, someone else taking the vaccine instead etc.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  I don't have time to explain to you the intricacies of antibody testing. However, it is much more difficult than to standardize on what antigens and what titres to pick and how to correlate that for a "positive" result. Testing for neutralizing antibodies is even harder, because it involves isolating the antibodies and testing them against live virus particles and a cell culture. And yes, standardizing such testing, as complicated and expensive as it is, across all the relevant labs across the country would be a bureaucratic nightmare. I'm not going to engage with your bullshit about doctors faking vaccinations.
  - labawi 5y ago
    Iceland accepts either vaccine or previous infection certificates[1][2]. They seemed to handle covid well, being fairly strict. Fake vaccinations[3], including fake certificates are popular, especially when they are forced. If you want a fake vaccination, I know a guy who knows a guy. Point is - it's not bullshit. Yes, checking certificates is easier than testing for antibodies. While harder, I still think antibody tests would have less false positives and I most certainly don't think the relative easiness to administer vaccines is a good reason to require everyone to take them, even when they are more immune then those who only got the vaccine. A friend had an antibody test as he already had covid and didn't want to go for a vaccine. It was no big deal. [1] https://www.covid.is/sub-categories/travel-to-and-within-iceland https://www.covid.is/sub-categories/travel-to-and-within-ice... [2] https://www.landlaeknir.is/um-embaettid/greinar/grein/item43709/certificates-regarding-previous-covid-19-infection-that-are-accepted-at-the-border-in-iceland-from-10-december-2020 https://www.landlaeknir.is/um-embaettid/greinar/grein/item43... [3] https://text.npr.org/1026863219 https://text.npr.org/1026863219
    - bayesian_horse 5y ago
      Did you notice that Iceland is a slightly smaller country, with probably quite a bit fewer medical labs? Also an island, with islands generally having an easier time with all the pandemic restrictions stuff? I don't even know how Iceland's health system is organized. But it would be a good bet that it is light years ahead of the mess of the 52 states plus territories and whatever! Much different story.