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> it seems to me like it’s competing with docker and kubernetes and I have never seen a convincing argument about why it would be better. This seems to indicat

> it seems to me like it’s competing with docker and kubernetes and I have never seen a convincing argument about why it would be better. This seems to indicate a huge mismatch between what you think Nix/OS is compared to what it actually is. NixOS is for creating/maintaining systems, Docker is for running applications and Kubernetes is for running applications but across multiple servers, neither of those tools are like the other really.

WastingMyTime89 5y ago
> Docker is for running applications Yes but no. Docker is mainly used for its ability to build and reuse standardised containers. It’s very much a distribution mechanism (I mean that’s why it’s called docker). From other comments I get the feeling that NixOS could be used to build reproducible containers in a way that remind me of building tools like Bazel but it’s not entirely clear to me why you would chose to do that nor if it’s actually a goal of the product.
- easygenes 5y ago
  Docker and Kubernetes are almost strictly a subset of the power within the Nix ecosystem.
- jbboehr 5y ago
  > NixOS could be used to build reproducible containers You absolutely can build docker images using Nix via dockerTools.buildImage [0]. [0]: https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images
Azsy 5y ago
The market you compete in is the market your users imagine you offer similar solutions. Not the market of how you describe yourself. Docker's features usually include "its easier to create and maintain a system". That Nix does this different and better doesn't matter when a user is just looking to solve that one problem. At that moment, for that user, Nix is just a fancy config manager with one click deploy features and competing with docker.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  I would argue Docker and Kubernetes are a bunch of crap popularized by people lulled into blowing all their money to cloud providers and compelled out of envy to imitate big tech -style deployments, even though it means taking on extra problems you absolutely don't need to deal with. Also, Docker and Kubernetes are...just more layers. There is no cleaning up what came before. The Nix ecosystem is about drilling all the way down and cleaning up the prior tech debt. It's a fundamentally different approach.
- capableweb 5y ago
  Again, misunderstandings seems to run rampant in this thread... No, Docker doesn't maintain systems, it handles applications. No one runs systems inside of Docker. People run applications with Docker, and Docker itself runs on systems. And no, Nix doesn't "do this differently and better", as what Docker does and Nix does is wildly different. Nix is for machines, not applications. Sure, a subset of features from Nix can be used like Docker, but that doesn't mean Nix and Docker is the same, no matter what you think of markets or whatever.
  - _red 5y ago
    I think what the parent is alluding to is: What is the practical point of using Nix when similar outcomes can be reached with more mainstream solutions? In other words, suppose I want to deploy a web app that depends on Nginx, PHP, and PostgreSQL. I could: (a) Run all as docker-compose type solution (b) Run all as scripted Nix solution (c) Install packages manually on general purpose OS Lets ignore "c" for the moment as the goal is to avoid that exact scenario. Given the prevalence and widespread support for "a" why should sysadmins choose "b"?
    - capableweb 5y ago
      I don't understand how you can use docker-compose, docker, Kubernetes or anything else to achieve the same thing as NixOS. NixOS gives you a fully reproducible personal computing system, from boot config, window manager, partitioning to applications, home directories and everything in between. What mainstream options are available for doing this? Guix could be one option, but it's not mainstream so I'm not sure what tools you are referring to.

WastingMyTime89 5y ago

> Docker is for running applications Yes but no. Docker is mainly used for its ability to build and reuse standardised containers. It’s very much a distribution mechanism (I mean that’s why it’s called docker). From other comments I get the feeling that NixOS could be used to build reproducible containers in a way that remind me of building tools like Bazel but it’s not entirely clear to me why you would chose to do that nor if it’s actually a goal of the product.

easygenes 5y ago
Docker and Kubernetes are almost strictly a subset of the power within the Nix ecosystem.
jbboehr 5y ago
> NixOS could be used to build reproducible containers You absolutely can build docker images using Nix via dockerTools.buildImage [0]. [0]: https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images

Azsy 5y ago

The market you compete in is the market your users imagine you offer similar solutions. Not the market of how you describe yourself. Docker's features usually include "its easier to create and maintain a system". That Nix does this different and better doesn't matter when a user is just looking to solve that one problem. At that moment, for that user, Nix is just a fancy config manager with one click deploy features and competing with docker.

Ericson2314 5y ago
I would argue Docker and Kubernetes are a bunch of crap popularized by people lulled into blowing all their money to cloud providers and compelled out of envy to imitate big tech -style deployments, even though it means taking on extra problems you absolutely don't need to deal with. Also, Docker and Kubernetes are...just more layers. There is no cleaning up what came before. The Nix ecosystem is about drilling all the way down and cleaning up the prior tech debt. It's a fundamentally different approach.
capableweb 5y ago
Again, misunderstandings seems to run rampant in this thread... No, Docker doesn't maintain systems, it handles applications. No one runs systems inside of Docker. People run applications with Docker, and Docker itself runs on systems. And no, Nix doesn't "do this differently and better", as what Docker does and Nix does is wildly different. Nix is for machines, not applications. Sure, a subset of features from Nix can be used like Docker, but that doesn't mean Nix and Docker is the same, no matter what you think of markets or whatever.
- _red 5y ago
  I think what the parent is alluding to is: What is the practical point of using Nix when similar outcomes can be reached with more mainstream solutions? In other words, suppose I want to deploy a web app that depends on Nginx, PHP, and PostgreSQL. I could: (a) Run all as docker-compose type solution (b) Run all as scripted Nix solution (c) Install packages manually on general purpose OS Lets ignore "c" for the moment as the goal is to avoid that exact scenario. Given the prevalence and widespread support for "a" why should sysadmins choose "b"?
  - capableweb 5y ago
    I don't understand how you can use docker-compose, docker, Kubernetes or anything else to achieve the same thing as NixOS. NixOS gives you a fully reproducible personal computing system, from boot config, window manager, partitioning to applications, home directories and everything in between. What mainstream options are available for doing this? Guix could be one option, but it's not mainstream so I'm not sure what tools you are referring to.