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I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions

I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on. At the same time, I don't like the idea of succumbing to an online mob of sorts. It seems like MIT is thinking kind of like a business here. And perhaps that's the bigger problem – not only are campuses are becoming more like big businesses, but they are big businesses. So they tend to act more like businesses then intellectual centers of speech and thought. Edit: After reading the letter linked in another thread [1], the support for my understanding of this as an action against "stuff that's bad for business" seems to be strengthened. To quote: > The Carlson Lecture is not a standard scientific talk for fellow scientists. It is an outreach event, open to the public, with a speaker who is an outstanding scientist and role model. Typically held at a major venue away from campus, it is geared to build public understanding of and appreciation for climate science, and to inspire young people to consider careers in STEM. Each year students from local high schools are invited...while all of us can agree that Professor Abbot has the freedom to speak as he chooses on any subject, the department leadership concluded that the debate over both his views on diversity, equity, and inclusion and manner of presenting them were overshadowing the purpose and spirit of the Carlson Lecture. Translation: We don't someone who compares DEI efforts to their Third Reich as our public spokesperson. As someone who is pretty much never invited to be a public spokesperson for various reasons like physical appearance et cetera, I am A-okay with this. -------------------- [1] https://orgchart.mit.edu/node/6/letters_to_community/important-update-re-eaps https://orgchart.mit.edu/node/6/letters_to_community/importa...

brongondwana 5y ago
I used to think as you outlined here, and then I realised that I would only care if they made a Third Reich comparison that I disagreed with. If they said Milo is literally Hitler, I'd... well, I would have been very confused because Milo is a tasty chocolate drink. But I wouldn't have considered it an offense... so the offense wasn't actually the use of unspeakable comparisons, it was the sin of doing so while disagreeing with me! So I try not to judge quite so quickly now, though I probably still fail plenty...
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  The only things that should be compared to Nazis and Hitler should be the Nazis and Hitler themselves. I don't think that's unreasonable. [Edit: some people think it is reasonable, but they don't want to explain themselves]
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    I guess I'll disagree with that, Nazis and Hitler are not some holy or taboo things that must never be compared to anything else, the problem is that comparison between things becomes difficult the more emotionally charged the things being compared are, so if you are going to compare Nazis and Hitler with something else you better be really clever at making comparisons and able to fight when folks come unglued.
    - FridayoLeary 5y ago
      and who can do that? Logically what you are saying makes sense, but when applied practically it falls apart. Leading me to suggest a blanket taboo considering how hugely disrespectful and inconsiderate there comparisons are.
StevePerkins 5y ago
> "I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on." I believe that, broadly speaking, Hitler and Nazi references are beyond tired and cliche at this point. However, "disclaimers" such as this one are disappointing. Because silly Nazi references seem to be thrown around by everyone, and yet somehow it's only objectionable or worthy of challenge when the wrong people do it.
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  I mean, context matters? Nazi comparisons in a comment section is one thing, Nazi comparisons in a opinion piece in a big weekly magazine is a different thing because in the latter case your are supposed to have put actual thought into what you say and how you say it.
CodeGlitch 5y ago
> made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on. Why??
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- quadrifoliate 5y ago
  I'm thinking mostly like a business. Nazi comparisons are bad for business. If someone starts bringing up the Nazis in some obscure context during your pizza shop's pepperoni v/s margharita bake-off, what are you going to do? Best thing to do is to move on as quickly as possible, and kick out the person who made Nazi comparisons. Now I already concede, that perhaps this should not happen on a campus. Perhaps we should explicitly maintain campuses as places where limits might be tested, and have robust responses.
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    > Ninety years ago Germany had the best universities in the world. Then an ideological regime obsessed with race came to power and drove many of the best scholars out, gutting the faculties and leading to sustained decay that German universities never fully recovered from. I'll highlight the important and relevant bit for you: "ideological regime obsessed with race came to power and drove many of the best scholars out" Sounds pretty much what is happening in US / UK Universities right now doesn't it?

brongondwana 5y ago

I used to think as you outlined here, and then I realised that I would only care if they made a Third Reich comparison that I disagreed with. If they said Milo is literally Hitler, I'd... well, I would have been very confused because Milo is a tasty chocolate drink. But I wouldn't have considered it an offense... so the offense wasn't actually the use of unspeakable comparisons, it was the sin of doing so while disagreeing with me! So I try not to judge quite so quickly now, though I probably still fail plenty...

FridayoLeary 5y ago
The only things that should be compared to Nazis and Hitler should be the Nazis and Hitler themselves. I don't think that's unreasonable. [Edit: some people think it is reasonable, but they don't want to explain themselves]
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  I guess I'll disagree with that, Nazis and Hitler are not some holy or taboo things that must never be compared to anything else, the problem is that comparison between things becomes difficult the more emotionally charged the things being compared are, so if you are going to compare Nazis and Hitler with something else you better be really clever at making comparisons and able to fight when folks come unglued.
  - FridayoLeary 5y ago
    and who can do that? Logically what you are saying makes sense, but when applied practically it falls apart. Leading me to suggest a blanket taboo considering how hugely disrespectful and inconsiderate there comparisons are.

StevePerkins 5y ago

> "I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on." I believe that, broadly speaking, Hitler and Nazi references are beyond tired and cliche at this point. However, "disclaimers" such as this one are disappointing. Because silly Nazi references seem to be thrown around by everyone, and yet somehow it's only objectionable or worthy of challenge when the wrong people do it.

SiempreViernes 5y ago
I mean, context matters? Nazi comparisons in a comment section is one thing, Nazi comparisons in a opinion piece in a big weekly magazine is a different thing because in the latter case your are supposed to have put actual thought into what you say and how you say it.

CodeGlitch 5y ago

> made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on. Why??

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
quadrifoliate 5y ago
I'm thinking mostly like a business. Nazi comparisons are bad for business. If someone starts bringing up the Nazis in some obscure context during your pizza shop's pepperoni v/s margharita bake-off, what are you going to do? Best thing to do is to move on as quickly as possible, and kick out the person who made Nazi comparisons. Now I already concede, that perhaps this should not happen on a campus. Perhaps we should explicitly maintain campuses as places where limits might be tested, and have robust responses.
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  > Ninety years ago Germany had the best universities in the world. Then an ideological regime obsessed with race came to power and drove many of the best scholars out, gutting the faculties and leading to sustained decay that German universities never fully recovered from. I'll highlight the important and relevant bit for you: "ideological regime obsessed with race came to power and drove many of the best scholars out" Sounds pretty much what is happening in US / UK Universities right now doesn't it?