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Where is your data to support your extraordinary claim that "a lot of people have already had COVID and pose a lower risk than someone who is vaccinated"? http

Where is your data to support your extraordinary claim that "a lot of people have already had COVID and pose a lower risk than someone who is vaccinated"? https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-vaccination-why-everyone-should-get-a-covid-19-shot/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-v... "The CDC researchers found that people previously infected but unvaccinated were 2.34 times more likely to get reinfected than people who were previously infected and fully vaccinated." "The researchers saw even more variability when they looked at neutralizing antibodies—those known to bind to the virus and prevent it from infecting cells. Neutralizing antibody levels in recovered people varied over a range of 40,000-fold, and up to 20 percent of people didn't have any detectable level of neutralizing antibody." For vaccines, we have data showing they are highly effective: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/Vaccine_Effectiveness_2Doses.pdf http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/Vaccine_Effec... We have data showing reduction in transmission as a result of vaccination. We don't have comparable data for people who have merely been previously infected, and in fact the data we do have seems to provide evidence that they pose higher risk. The immune system is not as reliable when it is having to fight off an infection while mounting its response vs when it is able to mount an immune response while not under attack from the virus. We're quite happy here with our freedom to go to a restaurant or attend a festival without exposing ourselves to the risk of being around unvaccinated people.

roenxi 5y ago
Your source is comparing reinfection risk. Reinfection risk is very low [0]. It can't drive a pandemic. And, fairly critically, it is crazy to start isolating people from social life over that low reinfection risk. You've been exposed to people who are unvaccinated for all sort of dangerous diseases through your life and nobody has tried to lock them out of society for that. EDIT I suppose I'll throw in here this isn't about whether vaccination is good or not. Anyone who hasn't made up their mind at this point isn't persuaded by evidence. This is about how to treat people who make choices that the government disagrees with. Locking them off aeroplanes isn't the way. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8209951/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8209951/
- mthoms 5y ago
  >This is about how to treat people who make choices that the government disagrees with I hate to tell you this. Putting restrictions on non-vaccinated people is not some Government conspiracy. It's literally what the vast majority of the people of Canada want for their safety. That includes your neighbours and (possibly) your family members. That's what the government is supposed to do. Sure, you could make some "tyranny of the majority" argument here but in the case of anti-vaxers, you'll be hard pressed to find any sympathy from most Canadians. It's not a government conspiracy. It's the will of the people it represents. I know that doesn't make nearly as good a narrative, but it's the hard truth.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    It's not like we didn't do this with measles, mumps, polio, smallpox, rubella, tuberculosis...
  - roenxi 5y ago
    Something being popular is no guarantee at all that it is a good idea. The US just left Afghanistan this year, for example. Anyone claiming that 20 year debacle was a mistake going in to it was not in for a pleasant time - but they were right. The Patriot Act is much more long-lived than Bin Laden. The worst time to do this is hastily and when people are feeling scared; these are some serious bridges being crossed. The systems being set up to deal with people who aren't scared of the coronavirus are going to be permanent and are a very decisive step in reshaping Western culture using the model trailed in China.
angelzen 5y ago
I wish people stopped the over-reliance on antibody studies. I get it, it's fun to play with cool technology and great to get papers published. OTOH, antibodies are just a part of the immune system, decay exponentially post infection / vaccination and there is no golden formula to correlate antibody levels with infection risk.
redis_mlc 5y ago
An Israeli study said immunity due to infections was stronger than vaccines. Also, the NIH reported this summer that their 2020 estimates of infection rates were completely wrong, with 5x more infected than previously thought. Death certificates have been revised in the US back to January 2020 for corona deaths. (Some were in San Jose, so that's been in the local news.) The above matches what we've seen in SF. Based on very low ICU usage in 2020 (10%-15% corona of total ICU bed usage in Santa Clara County hospitals, before delta), corona likely entered California in late 2019 (Calif. got 50,000 passengers per week from China before the travel halt) and circulated enough to avoid the spikes seen in NY.

roenxi 5y ago

Your source is comparing reinfection risk. Reinfection risk is very low [0]. It can't drive a pandemic. And, fairly critically, it is crazy to start isolating people from social life over that low reinfection risk. You've been exposed to people who are unvaccinated for all sort of dangerous diseases through your life and nobody has tried to lock them out of society for that. EDIT I suppose I'll throw in here this isn't about whether vaccination is good or not. Anyone who hasn't made up their mind at this point isn't persuaded by evidence. This is about how to treat people who make choices that the government disagrees with. Locking them off aeroplanes isn't the way. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8209951/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8209951/

mthoms 5y ago
>This is about how to treat people who make choices that the government disagrees with I hate to tell you this. Putting restrictions on non-vaccinated people is not some Government conspiracy. It's literally what the vast majority of the people of Canada want for their safety. That includes your neighbours and (possibly) your family members. That's what the government is supposed to do. Sure, you could make some "tyranny of the majority" argument here but in the case of anti-vaxers, you'll be hard pressed to find any sympathy from most Canadians. It's not a government conspiracy. It's the will of the people it represents. I know that doesn't make nearly as good a narrative, but it's the hard truth.
- klyrs 5y ago
  It's not like we didn't do this with measles, mumps, polio, smallpox, rubella, tuberculosis...
- roenxi 5y ago
  Something being popular is no guarantee at all that it is a good idea. The US just left Afghanistan this year, for example. Anyone claiming that 20 year debacle was a mistake going in to it was not in for a pleasant time - but they were right. The Patriot Act is much more long-lived than Bin Laden. The worst time to do this is hastily and when people are feeling scared; these are some serious bridges being crossed. The systems being set up to deal with people who aren't scared of the coronavirus are going to be permanent and are a very decisive step in reshaping Western culture using the model trailed in China.

angelzen 5y ago

I wish people stopped the over-reliance on antibody studies. I get it, it's fun to play with cool technology and great to get papers published. OTOH, antibodies are just a part of the immune system, decay exponentially post infection / vaccination and there is no golden formula to correlate antibody levels with infection risk.

redis_mlc 5y ago

An Israeli study said immunity due to infections was stronger than vaccines. Also, the NIH reported this summer that their 2020 estimates of infection rates were completely wrong, with 5x more infected than previously thought. Death certificates have been revised in the US back to January 2020 for corona deaths. (Some were in San Jose, so that's been in the local news.) The above matches what we've seen in SF. Based on very low ICU usage in 2020 (10%-15% corona of total ICU bed usage in Santa Clara County hospitals, before delta), corona likely entered California in late 2019 (Calif. got 50,000 passengers per week from China before the travel halt) and circulated enough to avoid the spikes seen in NY.