4 ms·

>But (and I hope dang sees this) occasionally when HN "strays" away from tech it's absolutely brilliant. There's tons of discussion here on some health issues,

by jml7c5 5y ago

>But (and I hope dang sees this) occasionally when HN "strays" away from tech it's absolutely brilliant. There's tons of discussion here on some health issues, diets, stuff like that I've found the opposite. While there is enough knowledge about computing to keep the discussion informed and aligned with reality, outside that field we're mostly laymen. See the various UFO threads, the peculiar support for Wim Hof, the contentious COVID discussions... The health discussions in particular remind me a lot like the enthusiasm for polyphasic sleep 10-15 years ago, or the more recent enthusiasm for microdosing LSD.

concinds 5y ago
Well, I love Wim Hof breathing (and it helped me when I had Covid, and helps with HRV and energy levels), and now take Vitamin D, glycine, Zinc, and other stuff that seemed to help me a lot. On top of that, if you've ever dealt with any chronic illness (GERD in my case), you'll find the wealth of anecdotal, n=1 info posted in HN comments is much, much more helpful than anything you'd find anywhere else. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. There are some discussions you could have on reddit, or any other site, but the discussion quality would be 5-10% what it would be here, simply because of the different audience. People here tend to have more life experience, and I'm grateful for the scraps of wisdom that get shared in non-tech conversations here.
- newsbinator 5y ago
  I have GERD and I’d like to see those HN discussions of it
  - concinds 5y ago
    Well, all I did was search "GERD" in the comments; I found out that GERD's linked with inflammation, and went down the rabbit hole about Wim Hof, keto/carnivore, probiotics, etc. Helped a lot, though I still sleep around 6h a night and need to lose some weight, so I'm not worried that it hasn't been completely resolved yet.
mandmandam 5y ago
I'm open to new info, but, has the Wim Hof method not been confirmed in dozens of ways; from scientific studies to visceral demonstrations? N of 1, WHM helped me with a number of issues that I had thought were just going to be part of life. I don't think it deserves to be lumped in with "various UFO threads", or implied to be "unaligned with reality". As for "contentious COVID discussion"; do you not remember when the lab leak theory was banned from Facebook and Twitter, for over a year, with millions of posts removed? This was one of the few places with morsels of quality discussion. The topic has much to be "contentious" about, that's not HN's fault.
- bscphil 5y ago
  A cursory glance at the Wikipedia article seems to suggest that it does what it says on the tin: makes you more resistant to inflammation caused by certain stressful external conditions (e.g. extreme cold). So it "works" in that sense. However: > Critics of Hof say he overstates the benefits of his method. On his website he says that it has reduced symptoms of several diseases including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and Parkinson's disease. However, these claims have not been demonstrated scientifically. Wouter van Marken Lichtenbelt, one of the scientists who studied Hof, stated that "[Hof's] scientific vocabulary is galimatias. With conviction, he mixes in a non-sensical way scientific terms as irrefutable evidence." So I would assume the OP criticism of WHM is not about its use for specific scientifically studied and documented purposes, but for the claim that it can aid in the treatment of a vast array of other medical conditions. Interesting discussion on the SBM blog: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/wim-hof-the-iceman/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/wim-hof-the-iceman/
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    That's a very gracious interpretation of OP's criticism, where he compares WHM to UFOs and "unaligned reality". I had a look at your link, and didn't see much to interest tbh. It looked to me like smug skeptics, who haven't tried the method, joking about how much they dislike the cold. N of 1, I don't mind the cold any more, after despising it for my previous life. All I had to do was try it to verify. The link's author, Ms. Hall, has a history of retracted articles on the site, for "too many issues with the treatment of the relevant science". The worst part of her article, to me, was the denigration of WHM's confirmed attenuation of the inflammatory response - as if that's a "circus act", and "might not be useful". Inflammation is implicated in countless medical conditions. Managing it is a big deal, well worth exploring, and that's really fucking obvious. The second most insane part was where they claimed his methods have resulted in deaths, without the context that this was from people trying the method alone where they could injure themselves from passing out (like in water). There are constant warnings not to do this from Wim and his trainers. That's very deceptive for a site that claims to be science based in their title. Wim Hof's blood kills E.coli on it's own, and he has trained people to be able to do the same under laboratory conditions. Isn't that fucking fascinating? Not to the skeptics, apparently. He has trained 70+ year olds to climb mountains in their jocks - not worth a mention, it seems. The top comment discusses the brown fat hypothesis, without doing the basic research to find that this is an explored subject - it is confirmed WHM doesn't generate heat from brown fat, rather it's the intercostal muscles. TBH I'd consider that whole page and comment section a bad smear job. Not great, for a site that has "science based" in the url.

by jml7c5 5y ago

concinds 5y ago

Well, I love Wim Hof breathing (and it helped me when I had Covid, and helps with HRV and energy levels), and now take Vitamin D, glycine, Zinc, and other stuff that seemed to help me a lot. On top of that, if you've ever dealt with any chronic illness (GERD in my case), you'll find the wealth of anecdotal, n=1 info posted in HN comments is much, much more helpful than anything you'd find anywhere else. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. There are some discussions you could have on reddit, or any other site, but the discussion quality would be 5-10% what it would be here, simply because of the different audience. People here tend to have more life experience, and I'm grateful for the scraps of wisdom that get shared in non-tech conversations here.

newsbinator 5y ago
I have GERD and I’d like to see those HN discussions of it
- concinds 5y ago
  Well, all I did was search "GERD" in the comments; I found out that GERD's linked with inflammation, and went down the rabbit hole about Wim Hof, keto/carnivore, probiotics, etc. Helped a lot, though I still sleep around 6h a night and need to lose some weight, so I'm not worried that it hasn't been completely resolved yet.

mandmandam 5y ago

I'm open to new info, but, has the Wim Hof method not been confirmed in dozens of ways; from scientific studies to visceral demonstrations? N of 1, WHM helped me with a number of issues that I had thought were just going to be part of life. I don't think it deserves to be lumped in with "various UFO threads", or implied to be "unaligned with reality". As for "contentious COVID discussion"; do you not remember when the lab leak theory was banned from Facebook and Twitter, for over a year, with millions of posts removed? This was one of the few places with morsels of quality discussion. The topic has much to be "contentious" about, that's not HN's fault.

bscphil 5y ago
A cursory glance at the Wikipedia article seems to suggest that it does what it says on the tin: makes you more resistant to inflammation caused by certain stressful external conditions (e.g. extreme cold). So it "works" in that sense. However: > Critics of Hof say he overstates the benefits of his method. On his website he says that it has reduced symptoms of several diseases including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and Parkinson's disease. However, these claims have not been demonstrated scientifically. Wouter van Marken Lichtenbelt, one of the scientists who studied Hof, stated that "[Hof's] scientific vocabulary is galimatias. With conviction, he mixes in a non-sensical way scientific terms as irrefutable evidence." So I would assume the OP criticism of WHM is not about its use for specific scientifically studied and documented purposes, but for the claim that it can aid in the treatment of a vast array of other medical conditions. Interesting discussion on the SBM blog: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/wim-hof-the-iceman/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/wim-hof-the-iceman/
- mandmandam 5y ago
  That's a very gracious interpretation of OP's criticism, where he compares WHM to UFOs and "unaligned reality". I had a look at your link, and didn't see much to interest tbh. It looked to me like smug skeptics, who haven't tried the method, joking about how much they dislike the cold. N of 1, I don't mind the cold any more, after despising it for my previous life. All I had to do was try it to verify. The link's author, Ms. Hall, has a history of retracted articles on the site, for "too many issues with the treatment of the relevant science". The worst part of her article, to me, was the denigration of WHM's confirmed attenuation of the inflammatory response - as if that's a "circus act", and "might not be useful". Inflammation is implicated in countless medical conditions. Managing it is a big deal, well worth exploring, and that's really fucking obvious. The second most insane part was where they claimed his methods have resulted in deaths, without the context that this was from people trying the method alone where they could injure themselves from passing out (like in water). There are constant warnings not to do this from Wim and his trainers. That's very deceptive for a site that claims to be science based in their title. Wim Hof's blood kills E.coli on it's own, and he has trained people to be able to do the same under laboratory conditions. Isn't that fucking fascinating? Not to the skeptics, apparently. He has trained 70+ year olds to climb mountains in their jocks - not worth a mention, it seems. The top comment discusses the brown fat hypothesis, without doing the basic research to find that this is an explored subject - it is confirmed WHM doesn't generate heat from brown fat, rather it's the intercostal muscles. TBH I'd consider that whole page and comment section a bad smear job. Not great, for a site that has "science based" in the url.