6 ms·

We could also forbid the insecticides killing the bees, and let consumers pay the higher prices on agricultural products.

gumby 5y ago
That is not the way things work in the US. The mfrs will cry “job losses” due to discontinuing production. Farmers will cry poor. Nothing will happen.
- riffraff 5y ago
  I'm aware of the power of corporations in the US and elsewhere, but didn't they manage to forbid a lot of things over the years anyways? Lead paint, freon refrigerators etc.
  - gumby 5y ago
    I’m talking about the USA of the last 20 years. Some things like an international ban on CFCs was, in retrospect the last gasp of the old order.
- alex_young 5y ago
  Isn’t it though? When was the last time you could go buy an AC unit with CFCs in it or leaded gasoline? Both of these products were banned for environmental reasons, both had huge industrial opposition to their ban, and we’ve managed to live just fine without them.
  - sli 5y ago
    The US at the time of those bans and the US now are practically different countries.
  - gumby 5y ago
    I was not around for the lead ban, but I remember the CFC ban and it was an utterly different era. An international plan, too. The SOx trading scheme comes from that era as well; today we have state laws against environmental plans.
ars 5y ago
> We could also forbid the insecticides killing the bees It's not so clear they actually are, France banned neonicotinoids in Sep of 2018, but as far as I can tell it has not changed anything in terms of bee deaths in France. I feel like this natural experiment should be more studied so we can tell if neonicotinoids are the problem or not.
sk2020 5y ago
Or maybe buy land, plant some clovers and stick some bee hives on it. The pervasive attitude of dealing with problems real or imagined with “who can the state punish?” rather than “what can I do to can I fix this?” is disturbing.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  The bees will still fly to the next field over, land on sprayed crops, and get poisoned.
  - sk2020 5y ago
    Only about 16% of Maine has active agricultural operations. Or if you want to take out the guesswork, buy some downtown blight in some city, demolish it, vegetate the site and donate it to the municipal parks and recreation department.
    - abeppu 5y ago
      I'm not saying we shouldn't set aside land in the way you're describing. But continuing to use the pesticides at the same time seems deeply counterproductive.

gumby 5y ago

That is not the way things work in the US. The mfrs will cry “job losses” due to discontinuing production. Farmers will cry poor. Nothing will happen.

riffraff 5y ago
I'm aware of the power of corporations in the US and elsewhere, but didn't they manage to forbid a lot of things over the years anyways? Lead paint, freon refrigerators etc.
- gumby 5y ago
  I’m talking about the USA of the last 20 years. Some things like an international ban on CFCs was, in retrospect the last gasp of the old order.
alex_young 5y ago
Isn’t it though? When was the last time you could go buy an AC unit with CFCs in it or leaded gasoline? Both of these products were banned for environmental reasons, both had huge industrial opposition to their ban, and we’ve managed to live just fine without them.
- sli 5y ago
  The US at the time of those bans and the US now are practically different countries.
- gumby 5y ago
  I was not around for the lead ban, but I remember the CFC ban and it was an utterly different era. An international plan, too. The SOx trading scheme comes from that era as well; today we have state laws against environmental plans.

ars 5y ago

> We could also forbid the insecticides killing the bees It's not so clear they actually are, France banned neonicotinoids in Sep of 2018, but as far as I can tell it has not changed anything in terms of bee deaths in France. I feel like this natural experiment should be more studied so we can tell if neonicotinoids are the problem or not.

sk2020 5y ago

Or maybe buy land, plant some clovers and stick some bee hives on it. The pervasive attitude of dealing with problems real or imagined with “who can the state punish?” rather than “what can I do to can I fix this?” is disturbing.

BenjiWiebe 5y ago
The bees will still fly to the next field over, land on sprayed crops, and get poisoned.
- sk2020 5y ago
  Only about 16% of Maine has active agricultural operations. Or if you want to take out the guesswork, buy some downtown blight in some city, demolish it, vegetate the site and donate it to the municipal parks and recreation department.
  - abeppu 5y ago
    I'm not saying we shouldn't set aside land in the way you're describing. But continuing to use the pesticides at the same time seems deeply counterproductive.