4 ms·

How legal is decompilation? Have we stablished legally accepted ways like in reverse engineering?

by tambourine_man 5y ago

GhettoComputers 5y ago
How legal are derivative works on GitHub with copilot? They can have rules, enforcement is separate.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  They are illegal, but github will leave them up until someone sends a dmca request / enforces their copyright.
thrownblown 5y ago
Didn't EU just drop a ruling regarding decompilation?
- judge2020 5y ago
  Decompilation to fix a bug or otherwise allow the software to be used as intended. Not just decompilation for the fun of it or running it on completely unsupported hardware or software. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    Can you argue that you intended to use the software on your iPad?
    - judge2020 5y ago
      On the surface maybe, but > such an exception to the author’s exclusive rights may not be used in a way which prejudices the legitimate interests of the rightholder or which conflicts with a normal exploitation of the program could be interpreted to mean that, especially for anything still being sold (like the retro games sold on Switch), interop for the sake of interop would very likely conflict with Nintendo's legitimate [business] interest.
Causality1 5y ago
I would assume it falls under the same rules regarding the ROM itself: legal to do yourself from a purchased copy but not legal to send to others.
Snetry 5y ago
I am unsure about the exact legal details about decompilation, but in regards to the SM64 decompile the fact it produces a rom that is byte for byte exact I doubt it to be legal
- tadfisher 5y ago
  There are infinite possible compiler inputs that would produce an exact copy of the ROM, or a superset of it. Pi is likely to be one of them. Would all such inputs infringe on Nintendo's copyright?
  - klodolph 5y ago
    This is such a nonsequitur. I can take something copyrighted, and generate an unlimited number of different things that infringe copyright. I could take Harry Potter and change where the line breaks are—countless variations. Or I could add commentary to the margins. I could put different pictures on the cover. I could translate the book into different languages. I could write new chapters and stick them in the middle.
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    The question is if the compiler input was made (in part) by copying something from Nintendo.
- derefr 5y ago
  From the SM64 decompilation (https://github.com/n64decomp/sm64 https://github.com/n64decomp/sm64) 's README: > This repo does not include all assets necessary for compiling the ROMs. A prior copy of the game is required to extract the assets. In other words, the repo only contains the reverse-engineered source code, not any reproductions of Nintendo's copyrighted or trademarked materials. You have to produce those infringing assets yourself—using tools they supply, yes; but also, crucially, by feeding in a copy of the game you already—presumably—have a private-use license for.
  - tambourine_man 5y ago
dcow 5y ago
It’s legal under the DMCA for the purpose of interoperability… but IANAL: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
- wtallis 5y ago
  The parts that refer to interoperability all use phrasing like "interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs". That "independently created" probably doesn't apply here.
  - dcow 5y ago
    I would consider this project to be aiming for interoperability with the target OS (Linux, macOS, Windows), an independently developed program.
    - wtallis 5y ago
      By that interpretation, you would be free to use information gleaned from reverse engineering Super Mario 64 to modify your OS of choice to be capable of running Super Mario 64 as-is. But the law doesn't authorize you to distribute a modified version of Super Mario 64, because the reverse engineering is only permitted "to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section."

How legal is decompilation? Have we stablished legally accepted ways like in reverse engineering?

GhettoComputers 5y ago

How legal are derivative works on GitHub with copilot? They can have rules, enforcement is separate.

charcircuit 5y ago
They are illegal, but github will leave them up until someone sends a dmca request / enforces their copyright.

thrownblown 5y ago

Didn't EU just drop a ruling regarding decompilation?

judge2020 5y ago
Decompilation to fix a bug or otherwise allow the software to be used as intended. Not just decompilation for the fun of it or running it on completely unsupported hardware or software. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559
- nebula8804 5y ago
  Can you argue that you intended to use the software on your iPad?
  - judge2020 5y ago
    On the surface maybe, but > such an exception to the author’s exclusive rights may not be used in a way which prejudices the legitimate interests of the rightholder or which conflicts with a normal exploitation of the program could be interpreted to mean that, especially for anything still being sold (like the retro games sold on Switch), interop for the sake of interop would very likely conflict with Nintendo's legitimate [business] interest.

Causality1 5y ago

I would assume it falls under the same rules regarding the ROM itself: legal to do yourself from a purchased copy but not legal to send to others.

Snetry 5y ago

I am unsure about the exact legal details about decompilation, but in regards to the SM64 decompile the fact it produces a rom that is byte for byte exact I doubt it to be legal

tadfisher 5y ago
There are infinite possible compiler inputs that would produce an exact copy of the ROM, or a superset of it. Pi is likely to be one of them. Would all such inputs infringe on Nintendo's copyright?
- klodolph 5y ago
  This is such a nonsequitur. I can take something copyrighted, and generate an unlimited number of different things that infringe copyright. I could take Harry Potter and change where the line breaks are—countless variations. Or I could add commentary to the margins. I could put different pictures on the cover. I could translate the book into different languages. I could write new chapters and stick them in the middle.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  The question is if the compiler input was made (in part) by copying something from Nintendo.
derefr 5y ago
From the SM64 decompilation (https://github.com/n64decomp/sm64 https://github.com/n64decomp/sm64) 's README: > This repo does not include all assets necessary for compiling the ROMs. A prior copy of the game is required to extract the assets. In other words, the repo only contains the reverse-engineered source code, not any reproductions of Nintendo's copyrighted or trademarked materials. You have to produce those infringing assets yourself—using tools they supply, yes; but also, crucially, by feeding in a copy of the game you already—presumably—have a private-use license for.
- tambourine_man 5y ago

dcow 5y ago

It’s legal under the DMCA for the purpose of interoperability… but IANAL: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

wtallis 5y ago
The parts that refer to interoperability all use phrasing like "interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs". That "independently created" probably doesn't apply here.
- dcow 5y ago
  I would consider this project to be aiming for interoperability with the target OS (Linux, macOS, Windows), an independently developed program.
  - wtallis 5y ago
    By that interpretation, you would be free to use information gleaned from reverse engineering Super Mario 64 to modify your OS of choice to be capable of running Super Mario 64 as-is. But the law doesn't authorize you to distribute a modified version of Super Mario 64, because the reverse engineering is only permitted "to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section."