5 ms·

Or maybe apple is actually toxic? I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, but multiple people report toxicity at apple.

by _8j50 5y ago

llimos 5y ago
Both of these things can be true. Having followed this story for a while, I do agree with the parent comment's analysis.
- _8j50 5y ago
  I agree both can be true, I can understand reserving judgement but I disagree with the analysis that because something else unrelated the person did in the past, their current claim is invalidated.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Yhippa 5y ago
If Apple is known toxic and you still go to work there, I don't know what to tell you.
- _8j50 5y ago
  Do you have a reason to believe they already knew it was toxic? (If you meant me, I don't work or worked for apple). If you read the thread, they had significant investment in apple making it hard for them to leave.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    If you’re doing well at apple making good money, you can achieve the same elsewhere.
    - exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
      It depends. Some of Apple’s internal systems are very specialized. People who have been there for a long time could grow dependent on its idiosyncratic systems and processes. This isn’t exclusive to engineering. Of course, the same could be said of other large corporations.
      - azinman2 5y ago
        Everything I can find suggests she was a product manager. Not an engineer. These skills translate to other companies. Further I’d suggest if you’re an engineer where only one company in the world can employ you, and you’re not getting fuck you money from it, you’ve done it wrong.
- rrsmtz 5y ago
  Do you think we have a responsibility towards people who aren't in the know, or who might have circumstances that make it hard to leave (for example, immigration processing)?
- aaomidi 5y ago
  Victim blaming at its finest
  - 0des 5y ago
    Victim implies it was outside of their control, and without forewarning, while knowing what you're engaging in ahead of time would negate that designation.
    - aaomidi 5y ago
      This is no different from "you shouldn't have been wearing that if you didn't want to get sexually assaulted"
      - ALittleLight 5y ago
        It's more like if you get into a boxing ring and complain about getting hit. If you knew what was going to happen and you chose to do it...
        _8j50 5y ago
        Didn't realize it was ok for any employer to fight with their employee as a norm.. you're saying the boxing ring is apple right? And the shit treatment is what anyone should expect going in? Ok, well I don't see why you would think she knew, it sounds like she is alerting potential employees and any government labor regulators of the work conditions so they can avoid the boxing ring as you put it and have a referree make sure the boxing match was fair and legal.
        ALittleLight 5y ago
        I think you're extending the metaphor a bit beyond what is useful. The original comment says "If Apple is known toxic and you still go to work there". Other comments then criticize this as victim blaming, but it's not. If you know a company is toxic and you choose to work there then you are not a victim, you are willingly exposing yourself to a toxic company the same way a boxer exposes himself to the blows of another boxer. My comment doesn't say it's okay for Apple to be toxic, fighting with employees is a norm, or that she did know. My comment is differentiating the hypothetical "If you know it is toxic and you work there you are not a victim" from the victim blaming "You shouldn't have been wearing that".
0des 5y ago
BadRabbit, you seem to be very invested in this topic, judging by your reply to my comment and now this one, so I must ask: Are you the person depicted in this topic, or in some way related to them?
- exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
  I am not the person nor in any way related to them other than a common employer at one point and I say claims of Apple’s toxicity should be investigated, reflexive paranoid suspicion of critics of Apple’s company culture be damned.
  - daliusd 5y ago
    It looks like you have responded from wrong account .
    - 0des 5y ago
      I'll admit, I had this same suspicion about this poster and one other in this thread.
      - exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
        Are you Global Security or something? What makes you so invested in defending the wealthiest company on earth?
        0des 5y ago
        What amount of wealth makes a company inherently guilty of all accusations? As Ive expressed in other posts, I don't hold Apple in high regard as a company at all, I merely find her claims to give me an impression that counters what she is asserting.
        exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
jahewson 5y ago
“A lot of people are saying”. We can do better than this on HN.
Redoubts 5y ago
> I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, Is this a joke? Google has been on the front page here a few times for questionable behavior alleged by (former) employees
- _8j50 5y ago
  Not driving people near suicide and breaking into homes type of a thing. I must have missed it, care to share a link?

Or maybe apple is actually toxic? I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, but multiple people report toxicity at apple.

by _8j50 5y ago

Or maybe apple is actually toxic? I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, but multiple people report toxicity at apple.

llimos 5y ago

Both of these things can be true. Having followed this story for a while, I do agree with the parent comment's analysis.

_8j50 5y ago
I agree both can be true, I can understand reserving judgement but I disagree with the analysis that because something else unrelated the person did in the past, their current claim is invalidated.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Yhippa 5y ago

If Apple is known toxic and you still go to work there, I don't know what to tell you.

_8j50 5y ago
Do you have a reason to believe they already knew it was toxic? (If you meant me, I don't work or worked for apple). If you read the thread, they had significant investment in apple making it hard for them to leave.
- azinman2 5y ago
  If you’re doing well at apple making good money, you can achieve the same elsewhere.
  - exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
    It depends. Some of Apple’s internal systems are very specialized. People who have been there for a long time could grow dependent on its idiosyncratic systems and processes. This isn’t exclusive to engineering. Of course, the same could be said of other large corporations.
    - azinman2 5y ago
      Everything I can find suggests she was a product manager. Not an engineer. These skills translate to other companies. Further I’d suggest if you’re an engineer where only one company in the world can employ you, and you’re not getting fuck you money from it, you’ve done it wrong.
rrsmtz 5y ago
Do you think we have a responsibility towards people who aren't in the know, or who might have circumstances that make it hard to leave (for example, immigration processing)?
aaomidi 5y ago
Victim blaming at its finest
- 0des 5y ago
  Victim implies it was outside of their control, and without forewarning, while knowing what you're engaging in ahead of time would negate that designation.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    This is no different from "you shouldn't have been wearing that if you didn't want to get sexually assaulted"
    - ALittleLight 5y ago
      It's more like if you get into a boxing ring and complain about getting hit. If you knew what was going to happen and you chose to do it...
      - _8j50 5y ago
        Didn't realize it was ok for any employer to fight with their employee as a norm.. you're saying the boxing ring is apple right? And the shit treatment is what anyone should expect going in? Ok, well I don't see why you would think she knew, it sounds like she is alerting potential employees and any government labor regulators of the work conditions so they can avoid the boxing ring as you put it and have a referree make sure the boxing match was fair and legal.
        ALittleLight 5y ago
        I think you're extending the metaphor a bit beyond what is useful. The original comment says "If Apple is known toxic and you still go to work there". Other comments then criticize this as victim blaming, but it's not. If you know a company is toxic and you choose to work there then you are not a victim, you are willingly exposing yourself to a toxic company the same way a boxer exposes himself to the blows of another boxer. My comment doesn't say it's okay for Apple to be toxic, fighting with employees is a norm, or that she did know. My comment is differentiating the hypothetical "If you know it is toxic and you work there you are not a victim" from the victim blaming "You shouldn't have been wearing that".

0des 5y ago

BadRabbit, you seem to be very invested in this topic, judging by your reply to my comment and now this one, so I must ask: Are you the person depicted in this topic, or in some way related to them?

exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
I am not the person nor in any way related to them other than a common employer at one point and I say claims of Apple’s toxicity should be investigated, reflexive paranoid suspicion of critics of Apple’s company culture be damned.
- daliusd 5y ago
  It looks like you have responded from wrong account .
  - 0des 5y ago
    I'll admit, I had this same suspicion about this poster and one other in this thread.
    - exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
      Are you Global Security or something? What makes you so invested in defending the wealthiest company on earth?
      - 0des 5y ago
        What amount of wealth makes a company inherently guilty of all accusations? As Ive expressed in other posts, I don't hold Apple in high regard as a company at all, I merely find her claims to give me an impression that counters what she is asserting.
        exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago

jahewson 5y ago

“A lot of people are saying”. We can do better than this on HN.

Redoubts 5y ago

> I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, Is this a joke? Google has been on the front page here a few times for questionable behavior alleged by (former) employees

_8j50 5y ago
Not driving people near suicide and breaking into homes type of a thing. I must have missed it, care to share a link?