11 ms·

30 days ago I was an Apple employee

91 points by forty 5y ago

exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
Gjøvik’s claims should be investigated. But regardless of their validity, this opportunity should be taken to discuss the work culture at Apple, which has long escaped scrutiny unlike other corporate giants such as Amazon or Ballmer-era Microsoft.
- blacktriangle 5y ago
  Clearly crazy person throws out unsubstantiated complaints along with a bunch of complaining about non issues, and you think that's justification to put a company under scrutity? Ok commissar.
  - noahtallen 5y ago
    > you think that's justification to put a company under scrutity The reality is that most companies probably should be under more scrutiny, especially the largest ones in the world. They have such massive amounts of power that society needs to make sure the power isn’t being used to harm society. IMO, this example isn’t why we should start putting Apple under scrutiny, but a reminder to continue doing so. It reminds us that bad things are happening at even the most respected companies — whether or not every report ends up being substantiated.
  - 0des 5y ago
    I can't agree with "clearly crazy" but I can agree with the fact that the presence of complaints in an org that size should not garner some wider scrutiny until they become substantiated with timely and specific complaints that get reported to the correct authorities, not to gofundme and the court of public opinion. Most of us don't work at Apple, and as we've been invited to spectate this matter, we just have to keep reading until something inside us says "yeah this sounds about right". Too many things about Apple invite scrutiny on a legitimate basis, like lapses in privacy or their 'dont complain to the press, it never helps' policy for application developers. In this age of enhanced always on connectivity there are going to be a lot of complaints, some true and some misguided, and treating each vague criticism (I choose the word vague because an accusation that remains nonspecific inspires skepticism) with a full investigation is a drain on resources that could be otherwise devoted to the overt egregious transgressions currently in process, like the ones I mentioned before.
    - exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
      As someone who has worked at Apple, I believe their work culture should be further scrutinized, at least to the same degree all major companies have had their internal cultures examined.
  - comrh 5y ago
    Put every company under scrutiny, no justification needed.
    - blacktriangle 5y ago
      Advocating for increased corporate scrutiny across the board is totally orthogonal to advocating for increased scrutiny of a particular company based on the isolated rantings of this wombat.
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0des 5y ago
Reading this tweet thread, the authors website, and then their gofundme has me curious how much is being left out. I'm empathetic for someone losing their job, especially over voicing a health concern, but after reading everything available, something doesn't feel right. This excerpt from their GoFundMe makes it seem like this is the person who's unhappy and silent on every team theyre on, and only decides to "get one back" when they finally get let go after the employer has exhausted all attempts at finding a team they can be productive on. > I worked at Apple for six years. I experienced misconduct and abuse on every team I was on, but I pushed through it. I knew if I spoke up about it, my career in tech would be over. Regardless, I empathize with this person losing their job, and hope they can find a career where they can be happy and productive.
- _8j50 5y ago
  You are making unsubstantiated claims about the person. If the reasons apple used such ad disclosing confidential info is correct then at that should be easily provable. Have you seen any evidence of apple claiming the person is difficult to work with or are you attacking them based on instinct? This isn't exactly the first person who has made similar claims about working at apple [1] , I only hear similar stories about apple in the tech industry. The apartment breakin and other criminal techniques, I can assure you apple isn't the only one, this kind of a thing happens (i know first hand!). Unfortunately, this person is better of finding a job elsewhere and trying to live their lives. Not a fight they can win. [1] https://www.teamblind.com/post/Apple-Toxic-Work-Environment-GOqhnAhY https://www.teamblind.com/post/Apple-Toxic-Work-Environment-...
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - fsckboy 5y ago
    > You are making unsubstantiated claims about the person his sentence was clearly speculation, and not a "claim". The people here suggesting mental health issue are on much thinner ice
    - 5y ago
jmcgough 5y ago
I've read some of her writings about superfund sites, her battle with apple where she publicly shared every mildly problematic or offensive email / communication she'd ever received, etc. I don't blame Apple at all for getting rid of her. She comes across (even while giving her side of the story) as unhinged and awful to work with. I have to wonder if maybe this is an ongoing mental health crisis or something.
- _8j50 5y ago
  Or maybe apple is actually toxic? I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, but multiple people report toxicity at apple.
  - llimos 5y ago
    Both of these things can be true. Having followed this story for a while, I do agree with the parent comment's analysis.
    - _8j50 5y ago
      I agree both can be true, I can understand reserving judgement but I disagree with the analysis that because something else unrelated the person did in the past, their current claim is invalidated.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - Yhippa 5y ago
    If Apple is known toxic and you still go to work there, I don't know what to tell you.
    - _8j50 5y ago
      Do you have a reason to believe they already knew it was toxic? (If you meant me, I don't work or worked for apple). If you read the thread, they had significant investment in apple making it hard for them to leave.
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Max-20 5y ago
The very first "scandal" she uncovered at Apple was her getting feedback on a presentation from another employee. She called it sexism and publicly shared private messages which basically proofed it was just that, professional feedback. It looks a lot like this is a mental health issue rather than actual wrongdoings at Apple. What she is doing now might really harm her ability to ever get hired again by a company in SV.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  What is she doing that's going to hurt her? And no, a lot of people didn't see that as professional feedback.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    A) they’re looking for a problem where none may exist B) they have no context on working with her, listening to her presentations, and her previous dialogues with her manager Her entire MO starting with her apartment housing “scandal” is to be a resilient victim fighting the oppressors. As you dig in you can quickly see she’s a nutcase who wants issues and a blind detached twitter army backing her to validate her despite none of these people actually having any real context to what’s going on.
    - aaomidi 5y ago
      Do you have any real context on what's going on? If not then how do you claim with such high certainty that she's a "nutcase"?
      - azinman2 5y ago
        Because I’ve read a ton of her material, and I work for Apple so I have some idea of what it’s like internally (although it’s a big company and many experiences are different). I also don’t have that context of working with her so I can look at that text message thread and easily imagine the problem is her affect and not some gender issue. She’s trying to provide absolute proof, but it’s very one sided and inconclusive by itself. Which just goes to show how she twists everything going on to be a great plot of the world against her. I’ve known people like this, and they’re disasters. Look at this thread and her twitter bio. She’s trying to wear victimhood on her sleeve as a primary identity. Why post this random thread rehashing everything you’ve already posted a million times and all the press you’ve tried to put out? She WANTS to be a giant victim. Remember we’re talking about being fired; no one physically abused her, no one poisoned her, etc. Yet you’d have to assume as much given she doesn’t want to move on with her life. If you read the commments she gets on twitter it’s clear she’s getting what she wants from them (encouragement and sympathy), but ultimately she’s shooting herself in the foot. Who would ever want to hire her again, or provide her housing (after her whole anti-apartment rant toxicity rant)?
beardedman 5y ago
Judging from the content she puts online, she seems painful to be around. Good one for Apple - that sort of attitude will bring a whole team down.
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isoprophlex 5y ago
There are two comments up now, casting doubt on the motives of the person who was let go. The big shocker here isn't Apple getting rid of someone who rocked the boat too much, that's a given in $bigcorp. It's the allegation of Apple breaking in to someone's home & impersonating the police. Now that i find shocking. Big if true.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  If apple is actually sending people to employees homes, what's to stop them from manipulating discourse on forums such as this? They certainly have the money and the expertise to do it. If this is at all a concern, what is this forum doing to prevent that from happening? https://www.gawker.com/5856260/apples-sleazy-secret-police-lose-their-leader https://www.gawker.com/5856260/apples-sleazy-secret-police-l...
  - MMS21 5y ago
    They definitely do this on macrumors just look at any comment section there
- rrsmtz 5y ago
  It's actually quite concerning and even a little suspicious that so many defamatory comments are linking criticism of the workplace with mental illness.
  - Le_Dook 5y ago
    That and questioning her experiences with sexism at Apple. I see people claiming to work for Apple having a go at her too, which I'm guessing are male.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  A huge thing if true, and not worth it. However it is exactly the kind of thing a person who in paranoid would believe. What is more likely, a big company is breaking into employees home and impersonating the police, or Apple has employed somebody with an undiscovered mental illness?
jonathaneunice 5y ago
I wonder: How many of the derogatory comments in this HN thread are paid hits?
- micropsia 5y ago
  20% maybe? Overs / unders?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
  I actually doubt there’s any. Seems like there’s a column of people who are so unwilling to stomach any criticism of Apple at any level, and freely act as corporate defenders pro bono. It is both maddening and puzzling. I’ve noticed this on HN for years.
guytpearson1 5y ago
Would you want to work with someone like this?
whoknowswhat11 5y ago
I thought the issue was that her manager provided feedback to her, and then complimented her. I didn't even realize she had this this issue around the "triple Superfund toxic waste dump". Is this the bay area? You can't move an inch of contaminated soil without a HUGE hassle, so I'm kind of curious ignoring apple how people were being allowed to be exposed in their office without adequate safety to a triple superfund toxic waste dump. Building inspector, planning clearance? No one caught this?
tsherr 5y ago
I find it interesting that everytime something like this comes up: a person (usually female) gets fired from a tech firm and alleges abuse and toxic work place, the response from the Hacker News crowd is is heavily negative (to the person) and tries to say the person is crazy/overly sensitive/hysterical. I'm not saying this specific person is right, but if the argument in the comments of "if everyone you work with is a moron, then maybe the problem is you" is true (and I think it can be) then we must consider that some of these stories are true and some people (and it appears to be often women) are being treated abysmally at work. If Apple can scan people's photos (just in case there's something nasty there) then they should welcome government investigation of their workplaces (just in case).
- jahewson 5y ago
  I find it interesting that every time this topic comes up there’s a comment like yours that spreads falsehoods and distortions about the state of HN. For example, won’t find much love for Bizzard’s sexism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27914062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27914062 All this says to me is that the facts are not on your side. But hey, let’s just ignore those and launch personal attacks on each other.
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n0000d3js 5y ago
It's so hard to take her seriously. She's now saying she was suspended, which isn't true. She is on the record and quoted as saying she requested paid admin leave when they wouldn't give her a paid exit and offered medical leave instead. She tweeted about an unreleased product, and then acts like she somehow has no idea what IP leak they are talking about. If she would lie about these things, how are we to believe anything else she says?
- micropsia 5y ago
  Your account was created 37 minutes ago. This is the only comment you've ever posted. Hi, Apple.
  - 0des 5y ago
    I wouldn't be so quick to claim its apple, there were others with this same profile but on the other side of the argument. That's just HN.
    - micropsia 5y ago
      Says the person who made the very first comment about this, a moment after it was posted. You clearly didn't read my story even though you said you did. It's here: https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html Yes, this is Ashley. Now please everyone stop claiming anyone willing to criticize Apple is me.
      - deleted 5y ago
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    - n0000d3js 5y ago
      Anyone can just read her Twitter feed where she posted the articles she's quoted in and her emails to Apple's HR and find that she's at least partially full of shit. She's absolutely delusional to think that Apple is trying to discredit her. She discredits herself.
0des 5y ago
It appears that user Micropsia is claiming to be Ashley, in this thread. Judging by their past post history, it appears in the past they have participated in discussions about Ashley while pretending to be someone else, using the word "she" when referring to themselves. https://imgur.com/5bxtTDR.png https://imgur.com/5bxtTDR.png
- micropsia 5y ago
  I never claimed this account wasn't me. In fact, I just owned the comments i made previously. You're reaching pretty hard. Why are you invested so much in this?
  - n0000d3js 5y ago
    Because talking about yourself in the third person isn't intentionally misleading people into thinking it's someone supporting you, as opposed to you supporting yourself?
gandutraveler 5y ago
This thread looks very sus. The way few accounts are defending apple and accusing the employee raises more eyebrows on apple.

91 points by forty 5y ago

Gjøvik’s claims should be investigated. But regardless of their validity, this opportunity should be taken to discuss the work culture at Apple, which has long escaped scrutiny unlike other corporate giants such as Amazon or Ballmer-era Microsoft.

blacktriangle 5y ago
Clearly crazy person throws out unsubstantiated complaints along with a bunch of complaining about non issues, and you think that's justification to put a company under scrutity? Ok commissar.
- noahtallen 5y ago
  > you think that's justification to put a company under scrutity The reality is that most companies probably should be under more scrutiny, especially the largest ones in the world. They have such massive amounts of power that society needs to make sure the power isn’t being used to harm society. IMO, this example isn’t why we should start putting Apple under scrutiny, but a reminder to continue doing so. It reminds us that bad things are happening at even the most respected companies — whether or not every report ends up being substantiated.
- 0des 5y ago
  I can't agree with "clearly crazy" but I can agree with the fact that the presence of complaints in an org that size should not garner some wider scrutiny until they become substantiated with timely and specific complaints that get reported to the correct authorities, not to gofundme and the court of public opinion. Most of us don't work at Apple, and as we've been invited to spectate this matter, we just have to keep reading until something inside us says "yeah this sounds about right". Too many things about Apple invite scrutiny on a legitimate basis, like lapses in privacy or their 'dont complain to the press, it never helps' policy for application developers. In this age of enhanced always on connectivity there are going to be a lot of complaints, some true and some misguided, and treating each vague criticism (I choose the word vague because an accusation that remains nonspecific inspires skepticism) with a full investigation is a drain on resources that could be otherwise devoted to the overt egregious transgressions currently in process, like the ones I mentioned before.
  - exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
    As someone who has worked at Apple, I believe their work culture should be further scrutinized, at least to the same degree all major companies have had their internal cultures examined.
- comrh 5y ago
  Put every company under scrutiny, no justification needed.
  - blacktriangle 5y ago
    Advocating for increased corporate scrutiny across the board is totally orthogonal to advocating for increased scrutiny of a particular company based on the isolated rantings of this wombat.

deleted 5y ago

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0des 5y ago

Reading this tweet thread, the authors website, and then their gofundme has me curious how much is being left out. I'm empathetic for someone losing their job, especially over voicing a health concern, but after reading everything available, something doesn't feel right. This excerpt from their GoFundMe makes it seem like this is the person who's unhappy and silent on every team theyre on, and only decides to "get one back" when they finally get let go after the employer has exhausted all attempts at finding a team they can be productive on. > I worked at Apple for six years. I experienced misconduct and abuse on every team I was on, but I pushed through it. I knew if I spoke up about it, my career in tech would be over. Regardless, I empathize with this person losing their job, and hope they can find a career where they can be happy and productive.

_8j50 5y ago
You are making unsubstantiated claims about the person. If the reasons apple used such ad disclosing confidential info is correct then at that should be easily provable. Have you seen any evidence of apple claiming the person is difficult to work with or are you attacking them based on instinct? This isn't exactly the first person who has made similar claims about working at apple [1] , I only hear similar stories about apple in the tech industry. The apartment breakin and other criminal techniques, I can assure you apple isn't the only one, this kind of a thing happens (i know first hand!). Unfortunately, this person is better of finding a job elsewhere and trying to live their lives. Not a fight they can win. [1] https://www.teamblind.com/post/Apple-Toxic-Work-Environment-GOqhnAhY https://www.teamblind.com/post/Apple-Toxic-Work-Environment-...
- deleted 5y ago
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- fsckboy 5y ago
  > You are making unsubstantiated claims about the person his sentence was clearly speculation, and not a "claim". The people here suggesting mental health issue are on much thinner ice
  - 5y ago

jmcgough 5y ago

I've read some of her writings about superfund sites, her battle with apple where she publicly shared every mildly problematic or offensive email / communication she'd ever received, etc. I don't blame Apple at all for getting rid of her. She comes across (even while giving her side of the story) as unhinged and awful to work with. I have to wonder if maybe this is an ongoing mental health crisis or something.

_8j50 5y ago
Or maybe apple is actually toxic? I don't hear googlers or Microsoft employees do this, but multiple people report toxicity at apple.
- llimos 5y ago
  Both of these things can be true. Having followed this story for a while, I do agree with the parent comment's analysis.
  - _8j50 5y ago
    I agree both can be true, I can understand reserving judgement but I disagree with the analysis that because something else unrelated the person did in the past, their current claim is invalidated.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Yhippa 5y ago
  If Apple is known toxic and you still go to work there, I don't know what to tell you.
  - _8j50 5y ago
    Do you have a reason to believe they already knew it was toxic? (If you meant me, I don't work or worked for apple). If you read the thread, they had significant investment in apple making it hard for them to leave.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Max-20 5y ago

The very first "scandal" she uncovered at Apple was her getting feedback on a presentation from another employee. She called it sexism and publicly shared private messages which basically proofed it was just that, professional feedback. It looks a lot like this is a mental health issue rather than actual wrongdoings at Apple. What she is doing now might really harm her ability to ever get hired again by a company in SV.

aaomidi 5y ago
What is she doing that's going to hurt her? And no, a lot of people didn't see that as professional feedback.
- azinman2 5y ago
  A) they’re looking for a problem where none may exist B) they have no context on working with her, listening to her presentations, and her previous dialogues with her manager Her entire MO starting with her apartment housing “scandal” is to be a resilient victim fighting the oppressors. As you dig in you can quickly see she’s a nutcase who wants issues and a blind detached twitter army backing her to validate her despite none of these people actually having any real context to what’s going on.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    Do you have any real context on what's going on? If not then how do you claim with such high certainty that she's a "nutcase"?
    - azinman2 5y ago
      Because I’ve read a ton of her material, and I work for Apple so I have some idea of what it’s like internally (although it’s a big company and many experiences are different). I also don’t have that context of working with her so I can look at that text message thread and easily imagine the problem is her affect and not some gender issue. She’s trying to provide absolute proof, but it’s very one sided and inconclusive by itself. Which just goes to show how she twists everything going on to be a great plot of the world against her. I’ve known people like this, and they’re disasters. Look at this thread and her twitter bio. She’s trying to wear victimhood on her sleeve as a primary identity. Why post this random thread rehashing everything you’ve already posted a million times and all the press you’ve tried to put out? She WANTS to be a giant victim. Remember we’re talking about being fired; no one physically abused her, no one poisoned her, etc. Yet you’d have to assume as much given she doesn’t want to move on with her life. If you read the commments she gets on twitter it’s clear she’s getting what she wants from them (encouragement and sympathy), but ultimately she’s shooting herself in the foot. Who would ever want to hire her again, or provide her housing (after her whole anti-apartment rant toxicity rant)?

beardedman 5y ago

Judging from the content she puts online, she seems painful to be around. Good one for Apple - that sort of attitude will bring a whole team down.

deleted 5y ago

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isoprophlex 5y ago

There are two comments up now, casting doubt on the motives of the person who was let go. The big shocker here isn't Apple getting rid of someone who rocked the boat too much, that's a given in $bigcorp. It's the allegation of Apple breaking in to someone's home & impersonating the police. Now that i find shocking. Big if true.

aaomidi 5y ago
If apple is actually sending people to employees homes, what's to stop them from manipulating discourse on forums such as this? They certainly have the money and the expertise to do it. If this is at all a concern, what is this forum doing to prevent that from happening? https://www.gawker.com/5856260/apples-sleazy-secret-police-lose-their-leader https://www.gawker.com/5856260/apples-sleazy-secret-police-l...
- MMS21 5y ago
  They definitely do this on macrumors just look at any comment section there
rrsmtz 5y ago
It's actually quite concerning and even a little suspicious that so many defamatory comments are linking criticism of the workplace with mental illness.
- Le_Dook 5y ago
  That and questioning her experiences with sexism at Apple. I see people claiming to work for Apple having a go at her too, which I'm guessing are male.
tomjen3 5y ago
A huge thing if true, and not worth it. However it is exactly the kind of thing a person who in paranoid would believe. What is more likely, a big company is breaking into employees home and impersonating the police, or Apple has employed somebody with an undiscovered mental illness?

jonathaneunice 5y ago

I wonder: How many of the derogatory comments in this HN thread are paid hits?

micropsia 5y ago
20% maybe? Overs / unders?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
exBarrelSpoiler 5y ago
I actually doubt there’s any. Seems like there’s a column of people who are so unwilling to stomach any criticism of Apple at any level, and freely act as corporate defenders pro bono. It is both maddening and puzzling. I’ve noticed this on HN for years.

guytpearson1 5y ago

Would you want to work with someone like this?

whoknowswhat11 5y ago

I thought the issue was that her manager provided feedback to her, and then complimented her. I didn't even realize she had this this issue around the "triple Superfund toxic waste dump". Is this the bay area? You can't move an inch of contaminated soil without a HUGE hassle, so I'm kind of curious ignoring apple how people were being allowed to be exposed in their office without adequate safety to a triple superfund toxic waste dump. Building inspector, planning clearance? No one caught this?

tsherr 5y ago

I find it interesting that everytime something like this comes up: a person (usually female) gets fired from a tech firm and alleges abuse and toxic work place, the response from the Hacker News crowd is is heavily negative (to the person) and tries to say the person is crazy/overly sensitive/hysterical. I'm not saying this specific person is right, but if the argument in the comments of "if everyone you work with is a moron, then maybe the problem is you" is true (and I think it can be) then we must consider that some of these stories are true and some people (and it appears to be often women) are being treated abysmally at work. If Apple can scan people's photos (just in case there's something nasty there) then they should welcome government investigation of their workplaces (just in case).

jahewson 5y ago
I find it interesting that every time this topic comes up there’s a comment like yours that spreads falsehoods and distortions about the state of HN. For example, won’t find much love for Bizzard’s sexism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27914062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27914062 All this says to me is that the facts are not on your side. But hey, let’s just ignore those and launch personal attacks on each other.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

n0000d3js 5y ago

It's so hard to take her seriously. She's now saying she was suspended, which isn't true. She is on the record and quoted as saying she requested paid admin leave when they wouldn't give her a paid exit and offered medical leave instead. She tweeted about an unreleased product, and then acts like she somehow has no idea what IP leak they are talking about. If she would lie about these things, how are we to believe anything else she says?

micropsia 5y ago
Your account was created 37 minutes ago. This is the only comment you've ever posted. Hi, Apple.
- 0des 5y ago
  I wouldn't be so quick to claim its apple, there were others with this same profile but on the other side of the argument. That's just HN.
  - micropsia 5y ago
    Says the person who made the very first comment about this, a moment after it was posted. You clearly didn't read my story even though you said you did. It's here: https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html Yes, this is Ashley. Now please everyone stop claiming anyone willing to criticize Apple is me.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - n0000d3js 5y ago
    Anyone can just read her Twitter feed where she posted the articles she's quoted in and her emails to Apple's HR and find that she's at least partially full of shit. She's absolutely delusional to think that Apple is trying to discredit her. She discredits herself.

0des 5y ago

It appears that user Micropsia is claiming to be Ashley, in this thread. Judging by their past post history, it appears in the past they have participated in discussions about Ashley while pretending to be someone else, using the word "she" when referring to themselves. https://imgur.com/5bxtTDR.png https://imgur.com/5bxtTDR.png

micropsia 5y ago
I never claimed this account wasn't me. In fact, I just owned the comments i made previously. You're reaching pretty hard. Why are you invested so much in this?
- n0000d3js 5y ago
  Because talking about yourself in the third person isn't intentionally misleading people into thinking it's someone supporting you, as opposed to you supporting yourself?

gandutraveler 5y ago

This thread looks very sus. The way few accounts are defending apple and accusing the employee raises more eyebrows on apple.