5 ms·

A similar thing happened in the US military. There used to be a system where voice, radar info, and data were relayed back from the front lines of a conflict v

by tyingq 5y ago

A similar thing happened in the US military. There used to be a system where voice, radar info, and data were relayed back from the front lines of a conflict via a system of portable microwave stations. Some of them short (<~50 miles) links with horn antennas like you see in this article. Longer links with parabolic dishes and tropospheric scatter. All "portable" equipment on camouflaged trucks and trailers that could be unloaded and assembled anywhere. All of that started being replaced in the mid-90's with a combination of dedicated military satellite equipment and more use of commodity stuff like small commercial microwave network bridges, cellular phones, satellite phones, and so on. They closed out the "microwave tech" jobs and folded them in with "satcom" or other specialties. Some of the equipment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/TRC-97 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/TRC-97 https://www.marines.mil/Photos/igphoto/2001740716/ https://www.marines.mil/Photos/igphoto/2001740716/ (apparently still used by the Marine Corps)

ms4720 5y ago
I was one of those techs, 29m
peterangular 5y ago
> A similar thing happened in the US military I'm not saying you're incorrect that the military had similar tech to what AT&T had, but I'll split the hair that they actually worked together hand-in-hand. They actually populated AT&T Long Lines towers with AUTOVON equipment which was the old military phone system in the US. Also used the same switching network to support Air Force One with the Echo Fox Presidential Aircraft network. Some of the locations were hardened for nuclear attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autovon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autovon http://www.coldwar-c4i.net/Echo-Fox/index.html http://www.coldwar-c4i.net/Echo-Fox/index.html
- tyingq 5y ago
  That may be true for some equipment in the miltary. The ones I'm talking about were standalone and portable, for use in a war zone. The only connections they would make to non-military equipment was after the voice/data was de-muxed into channels. That could be connected to phone lines, etc. Typically, though, pretty far downstream after passing through different equipment.
  - peterangular 5y ago
    In response to a post about the AT&T Long Lines network, saying something "similar" happened in the military seems disingenuous because they were absolutely partnered on the same project. To imply something is "similar" typically implies that it is separate to some degree - that's not the case with AT&T and the US military in regards to the Long Lines Network.
    - tyingq 5y ago
      Sorry, that just makes no sense to me. I'm talking about mobile military equipment that talked microwave only to other mobile military equipment. Equipment that would be deployed in a war zone, where AT&T probably wasn't present. Like a connection between a forward air control post and a rear echelon camp. Both being (typically) a bunch of tents and vehicles in the middle of nowhere. Downstream from that was voice/data channels that wouldn't care what AT&T or anyone else was doing. You seem to be talking about military use of FIXED (not portable/tactical) microwave, which is a different space.
      - peterangular 5y ago
        > You seem to be talking about military use of FIXED (not portable/tactical) microwave, which is a different space. Which is what the original post/article was about - the fixed terrestrial microwave network that AT&T ran... which was a major joint effort with the US military. Sorry I got caught up on "similar" being confusing when the military was 100% involved with what the original post was discussing (specifically the AT&T Long Lines network) - I regret my comments.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        Folkhack, You’re simply wrong. Stop arguing when you don’t possess firsthand knowledge. (I see you’ve added a new culpa, no worries! We all learn new stuff) Wanna go down a rabbit hole? Remember that spectrum sale in the 2010s? What if I told you the FBI had their own microwave network that they divested of around that time? Interesting stuff!
awslattery 5y ago
Army 25P (microwave systems MOS) is still around iirc (at least in the Reserves), and speaking from personal experience, 25Q10EAC was still getting dedicated 10 week training on tropo and DGM enclosures in 2012 at AIT. That EAC rider was certainly rare, but we were told tropo was still in play in South Korea, and as late as 2015, another company in my reserve ESB had a few tropo systems they were still maintaining and training on. But yes, by and large, most microwave-based signal MOS were rolled into either point-to-point "multichannel transmissions" (25Q) by which a good part of your qualifications include deployment of satellite transportable trailers (STT), SMART/T systems (shared with the Marines),and the Phoenix system; and the dedicated SATCOM MOS (25S).
- technol0gic 5y ago
  as a former 25U and 25A i've heard stories of what happened to birds that landed on that tropo ::shudder::

by tyingq 5y ago

ms4720 5y ago

I was one of those techs, 29m

peterangular 5y ago

> A similar thing happened in the US military I'm not saying you're incorrect that the military had similar tech to what AT&T had, but I'll split the hair that they actually worked together hand-in-hand. They actually populated AT&T Long Lines towers with AUTOVON equipment which was the old military phone system in the US. Also used the same switching network to support Air Force One with the Echo Fox Presidential Aircraft network. Some of the locations were hardened for nuclear attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autovon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autovon http://www.coldwar-c4i.net/Echo-Fox/index.html http://www.coldwar-c4i.net/Echo-Fox/index.html

tyingq 5y ago
That may be true for some equipment in the miltary. The ones I'm talking about were standalone and portable, for use in a war zone. The only connections they would make to non-military equipment was after the voice/data was de-muxed into channels. That could be connected to phone lines, etc. Typically, though, pretty far downstream after passing through different equipment.
- peterangular 5y ago
  In response to a post about the AT&T Long Lines network, saying something "similar" happened in the military seems disingenuous because they were absolutely partnered on the same project. To imply something is "similar" typically implies that it is separate to some degree - that's not the case with AT&T and the US military in regards to the Long Lines Network.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Sorry, that just makes no sense to me. I'm talking about mobile military equipment that talked microwave only to other mobile military equipment. Equipment that would be deployed in a war zone, where AT&T probably wasn't present. Like a connection between a forward air control post and a rear echelon camp. Both being (typically) a bunch of tents and vehicles in the middle of nowhere. Downstream from that was voice/data channels that wouldn't care what AT&T or anyone else was doing. You seem to be talking about military use of FIXED (not portable/tactical) microwave, which is a different space.
    - peterangular 5y ago
      > You seem to be talking about military use of FIXED (not portable/tactical) microwave, which is a different space. Which is what the original post/article was about - the fixed terrestrial microwave network that AT&T ran... which was a major joint effort with the US military. Sorry I got caught up on "similar" being confusing when the military was 100% involved with what the original post was discussing (specifically the AT&T Long Lines network) - I regret my comments.
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        Folkhack, You’re simply wrong. Stop arguing when you don’t possess firsthand knowledge. (I see you’ve added a new culpa, no worries! We all learn new stuff) Wanna go down a rabbit hole? Remember that spectrum sale in the 2010s? What if I told you the FBI had their own microwave network that they divested of around that time? Interesting stuff!

awslattery 5y ago

Army 25P (microwave systems MOS) is still around iirc (at least in the Reserves), and speaking from personal experience, 25Q10EAC was still getting dedicated 10 week training on tropo and DGM enclosures in 2012 at AIT. That EAC rider was certainly rare, but we were told tropo was still in play in South Korea, and as late as 2015, another company in my reserve ESB had a few tropo systems they were still maintaining and training on. But yes, by and large, most microwave-based signal MOS were rolled into either point-to-point "multichannel transmissions" (25Q) by which a good part of your qualifications include deployment of satellite transportable trailers (STT), SMART/T systems (shared with the Marines),and the Phoenix system; and the dedicated SATCOM MOS (25S).

technol0gic 5y ago
as a former 25U and 25A i've heard stories of what happened to birds that landed on that tropo ::shudder::