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It doesn’t seem very likely that hydrogen can compete against batteries for short duration storage. But storing electricity for weeks or months (to meet unusual

It doesn’t seem very likely that hydrogen can compete against batteries for short duration storage. But storing electricity for weeks or months (to meet unusual peaks in demand or troughs in supply) is a very different market. Today, natural gas (or where there isn’t a gas grid, oil) peaking plant wins in this market, but that isn’t an option when people plan for a truly zero carbon grid. All the models I can remember seeing for that situation need hydrogen storage or carbon capture - and carbon capture looks likely to be even more expensive than hydrogen. If renewables and electrolysis get cheap enough, hydrogen might even beat oil and gas here on cost.

maliker 5y ago
I think batteries will win in long duration storage over hydrogen as well. Batteries have a self-discharge rate, but geological hydrogen storage or cryogenic/pressurized tank storage also has a loss rate, and unpressurized tanks are very expensive. Last time I checked in the literature these loss rates were very similar to battery self-discharge rates. Of course these numbers are tricky to estimate exactly, so I'm open to the idea that a low loss hydrogen storage method might be out there. And of course the prices in these areas are changing quickly, so sources from 10+ years ago don't give a good picture of where we are now or will be in the future.
- nichyoung 5y ago
  Future costs are never certain. And it may depend where in the world you are. I’m pretty sure salt caverns full of hydrogen are a lot cheaper than most people expect batteries to get for storing (transmission grid scale) energy for a month or more. And I think that’s mostly because lithium, plentiful as it is, is unlikely to ever be as cheap as water. But admittedly not everywhere has the geology for the storing the hydrogen really cheaply. And, of course, in many ways an electrolysis to hydrogen storage to fuel cell system is just a type of (flow) battery. So in some ways this is a question of what type of battery system will win (as are discussions of hydrogen vehicles really, though I’d personally see those as staying pretty niche). Edit: typo further to future.

maliker 5y ago

I think batteries will win in long duration storage over hydrogen as well. Batteries have a self-discharge rate, but geological hydrogen storage or cryogenic/pressurized tank storage also has a loss rate, and unpressurized tanks are very expensive. Last time I checked in the literature these loss rates were very similar to battery self-discharge rates. Of course these numbers are tricky to estimate exactly, so I'm open to the idea that a low loss hydrogen storage method might be out there. And of course the prices in these areas are changing quickly, so sources from 10+ years ago don't give a good picture of where we are now or will be in the future.

nichyoung 5y ago
Future costs are never certain. And it may depend where in the world you are. I’m pretty sure salt caverns full of hydrogen are a lot cheaper than most people expect batteries to get for storing (transmission grid scale) energy for a month or more. And I think that’s mostly because lithium, plentiful as it is, is unlikely to ever be as cheap as water. But admittedly not everywhere has the geology for the storing the hydrogen really cheaply. And, of course, in many ways an electrolysis to hydrogen storage to fuel cell system is just a type of (flow) battery. So in some ways this is a question of what type of battery system will win (as are discussions of hydrogen vehicles really, though I’d personally see those as staying pretty niche). Edit: typo further to future.