11 ms·

Key witness in Assange case jailed after admitting to lies and crime spree

388 points by dane-pgp 5y ago

dane-pgp 5y ago
> Sigurdur Thordarson, a key witness for the FBI against Julian Assange, has been jailed in Iceland. ... Thordarson was given immunity by the FBI in exchange for testimony against Julian Assange. I wonder if this witness's motivation for testifying will factor into the decision of the High Court when it hears the Biden administration's appeal of the rejection of their extradition request.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I wonder if this witness's motivation for testifying will factor into the decision of the High Court when it hears the Biden administration's appeal of the rejection of their extradition request. Is there a cross-appeal or does the Court consider the case de novo? Because the lower court found the standards for a basis for extradition were met, but that the US could not provide adequate guarantees against Assange taking his own life; without a cross-appeal or de novo review, the basic standards shouldn't be relitigated on appeal.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    Good point, thank you. According to a recent update, the appeal will be heard on October 27-28 and will cover five grounds for appeal: https://assangedefense.org/hearing-coverage/u-s-allowed-to-expand-scope-of-assange-appeal/ https://assangedefense.org/hearing-coverage/u-s-allowed-to-e...
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  It's not likely, one of the wonders of the UK extradition process to the US is that the US doesn't need to produce evidence for extradition, they just need "reasonable suspicion". This isn't true the other way around... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_treaty_of_2003 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_tr...
  - toyg 5y ago
    That treaty was an actual act of vassalage, nevermind the EU stuff.
zz865 5y ago
OK this is the case about whether he committed sexual assault in Sweden - which may be exaggerated or fake is just to extradite him to the US. There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US secrets.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > OK this is the case about whether he committed sexual assault in Sweden No, this is a witness whose testimony is related to late additions to the US charges.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  > There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US secrets. That’s for a court to decide. It’s why we have trials: to determine if someone is guilty or not.
  - rileymat2 5y ago
    I find the jurisdictional issues interesting as well. He is not a U.S. citizen, he was not in the United States. Obviously, I would propose that someone who hacks U.S. interests having never set foot in the United States should be held accountable by U.S. courts, but he was even on the fringe of that in the promotion of it.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      > Obviously, I would propose that someone who hacks U.S. interests having never set foot in the United States should be held accountable by U.S. courts. I don’t necessarily disagree, but where this gets difficult is the inverse. When a US citizen commits a crime in a foreign country, will the US let the their citizen be tried outside the US?
      - ComputerGuru 5y ago
        > When a US citizen commits a crime in a foreign country, will the US let the their citizen be tried outside the US? If they’re just another Joe Schmoe, they’ll be hung to dry. If they have connections, they not only won’t be extradited, they’ll be smuggled out of the country they committed bald-faced murder in to turn it into a question of extradition when it was not. (Look up Anne Sacoolas.)
mirekrusin 5y ago
Is that picture from the prison itself (label "Sigurdur Thordarson in now in Litla Hraun prison in Iceland")? If it is, it looks order(s) of magnitude better than majority of earthlings homes.
- madars 5y ago
  You might enjoy this TIME magazine slideshow: Inside the World's Most Humane Prison https://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html https://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,0... about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison NYT also wrote a feature about it https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-humaneness-of-norways-halden-prison.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-huma...
- monocasa 5y ago
  Not from the looks of a Google image search. I'm guessing it's the court house he was tried in?
- YellowSuB 5y ago
  No that is a picture of him going into the courthouse in Reykjavík. But prison cells in Iceland are pretty nice though, here is an image of a cell in the new prison Hólmsheiði: https://axis.is/wp-content/gallery/holmsheidi/IMG_1081.jpg https://axis.is/wp-content/gallery/holmsheidi/IMG_1081.jpg But Litla-Hraun is an older building so the cells are not as nice there.
  - chmod775 5y ago
    That's... just a prison cell like you'd find in many places. Looking at that picture I'm unsure what makes it "nice" except for the fact that it looks somewhat freshly built. Cells are cells. What really differentiates prisons is everything around them and what amenities and workshops are offered.
    - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
bsd44 5y ago
Media Lens wrote about this in July and it was also posted here on HN: https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-remarkable-silence-media-blackout-after-key-witness-against-assange-admits-lying/ https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-remarkable-silence-media-bl...
- kjaftaedi 5y ago
  The story in the article (Sigurður being sent to prison) only happened two weeks ago. The link you are posting is a summary of a previous article written by the same authors at Stundin.
- graedus 5y ago
  HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710075
animal_spirits 5y ago
> Sigurdur Thordarson, a key witness for the FBI against Julian Assange, has been jailed in Iceland Oh! This guy was supposed to be a witness _for_ the FBI _against_ Assange. From the title I assumed the opposite.
nimbius 5y ago
If i were to describe the Assange case in a word, it would be myopic. once again the US has decided this is the hill it will die on. instead of reforming intelligence agencies, challenging the doctrine of mass surveillance, revisiting the manifest destiny of imperialist foreign policy, or even considering the cost to do nothing at all, the US has arrived at the conclusion that a witch hunt is the best hunt. prosecuting and jailing Assange does absolutely nothing to stop Wikileaks or wilileaks->next(). Whatever effort the US spent to slander and discredit Assange does nothing to stop people inspired by him, or motivated by US foreign policy in countries that do not enjoy its favour. The US seems completely oblivious to the fact that whatever happens to Assange the journalist, it simply isnt enough to curtail the overwhelming cacophony of demand for free and open journalism across the internet. Just let the guy go and focus the money, time, and effort on preventing this in the future. nearly every major news outlet and journalist all see Assange as a journalist, not a hacker. .
- Jack200 5y ago
  No most mainstream news outlets in the U.S. and the U.K. consider Assange to be a “Hacker” and a “Criminal”
- advael 5y ago
  The US' priority in situations like this is overwhelmingly to provide evidence that the threats it makes with criminal laws and defense of national secrets are credible. It has time and time again chosen to die on hills like this. The ethics and optics of it don't seem to factor much into the decisionmaking
  - lazide 5y ago
    When power reaches a certain level, it isn’t about being seen doing the right or ethical thing. It is about demonstrating that it can and will be used against whoever they want with impunity, even if it’s clearly wrong, and they will get away with it. It stops a lot of people from even attempting to challenge them, and just do what they want without question, which has many advantages. In some situations, it’s even legitimately necessary. It’s also prone to abuse of course. In order to keep this kind of power, it’s necessary to demonstrate from time to time this power exists and will be used, since if people start not being afraid of having their lives ruined if they challenge said power legitimately, they also stop going along with demands from those in power unquestioningly. And a lot of the ability to destroy someone for whatever reason (including legitimate ones) depends on that unquestioning compliance. You can think of it as a form of ‘bend the knee’.
encryptluks2 5y ago
I keep seeing these random sites popup saying he is a key witness. I assure you they still have a case with or without his support.
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  More accurate to they have no case, with or without his support.
asdefghyk 5y ago
About Assange potentially being extradited to America for trial. I contrast it with Prince Andrew. A normal person would be facing criminal charges and have been extradited to America for trial. One justice system for the rich and another justice system for people like Assange
zwww 5y ago
The key takeaway is not that they jailed him now. They should've and probably could have jailed him long ago. My understanding is that he, a convicted pedophile and all around sociopath, seemingly totally bent on pursuing wildly antisocial endeavours, was protected up until now. He strategically contacted the FBI which was able to lean on the Icelandic law enforcement through a diplomatic route to grant him unofficial immunity, as long as he served the purpose of going after Assange. Now that he admitted his testimony was based on lies, he is no longer useful and Iceland's law enforcement is finally free to do its job. He was jailed now because he betrayed his loyalty of his handlers. I wonder why he decided to break that, it seems like such a complete blunder. Perhaps he realised his testimony wouldn't hold up in court. Really wish the interview mentioned in the article would be translated to English but I can't find it.

388 points by dane-pgp 5y ago

> Sigurdur Thordarson, a key witness for the FBI against Julian Assange, has been jailed in Iceland. ... Thordarson was given immunity by the FBI in exchange for testimony against Julian Assange. I wonder if this witness's motivation for testifying will factor into the decision of the High Court when it hears the Biden administration's appeal of the rejection of their extradition request.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> I wonder if this witness's motivation for testifying will factor into the decision of the High Court when it hears the Biden administration's appeal of the rejection of their extradition request. Is there a cross-appeal or does the Court consider the case de novo? Because the lower court found the standards for a basis for extradition were met, but that the US could not provide adequate guarantees against Assange taking his own life; without a cross-appeal or de novo review, the basic standards shouldn't be relitigated on appeal.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  Good point, thank you. According to a recent update, the appeal will be heard on October 27-28 and will cover five grounds for appeal: https://assangedefense.org/hearing-coverage/u-s-allowed-to-expand-scope-of-assange-appeal/ https://assangedefense.org/hearing-coverage/u-s-allowed-to-e...
LatteLazy 5y ago
It's not likely, one of the wonders of the UK extradition process to the US is that the US doesn't need to produce evidence for extradition, they just need "reasonable suspicion". This isn't true the other way around... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_treaty_of_2003 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_tr...
- toyg 5y ago
  That treaty was an actual act of vassalage, nevermind the EU stuff.

zz865 5y ago

OK this is the case about whether he committed sexual assault in Sweden - which may be exaggerated or fake is just to extradite him to the US. There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US secrets.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> OK this is the case about whether he committed sexual assault in Sweden No, this is a witness whose testimony is related to late additions to the US charges.
nkrisc 5y ago
> There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US secrets. That’s for a court to decide. It’s why we have trials: to determine if someone is guilty or not.
- rileymat2 5y ago
  I find the jurisdictional issues interesting as well. He is not a U.S. citizen, he was not in the United States. Obviously, I would propose that someone who hacks U.S. interests having never set foot in the United States should be held accountable by U.S. courts, but he was even on the fringe of that in the promotion of it.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    > Obviously, I would propose that someone who hacks U.S. interests having never set foot in the United States should be held accountable by U.S. courts. I don’t necessarily disagree, but where this gets difficult is the inverse. When a US citizen commits a crime in a foreign country, will the US let the their citizen be tried outside the US?
    - ComputerGuru 5y ago
      > When a US citizen commits a crime in a foreign country, will the US let the their citizen be tried outside the US? If they’re just another Joe Schmoe, they’ll be hung to dry. If they have connections, they not only won’t be extradited, they’ll be smuggled out of the country they committed bald-faced murder in to turn it into a question of extradition when it was not. (Look up Anne Sacoolas.)

mirekrusin 5y ago

Is that picture from the prison itself (label "Sigurdur Thordarson in now in Litla Hraun prison in Iceland")? If it is, it looks order(s) of magnitude better than majority of earthlings homes.

madars 5y ago
You might enjoy this TIME magazine slideshow: Inside the World's Most Humane Prison https://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html https://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,0... about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison NYT also wrote a feature about it https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-humaneness-of-norways-halden-prison.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-huma...
monocasa 5y ago
Not from the looks of a Google image search. I'm guessing it's the court house he was tried in?
YellowSuB 5y ago
No that is a picture of him going into the courthouse in Reykjavík. But prison cells in Iceland are pretty nice though, here is an image of a cell in the new prison Hólmsheiði: https://axis.is/wp-content/gallery/holmsheidi/IMG_1081.jpg https://axis.is/wp-content/gallery/holmsheidi/IMG_1081.jpg But Litla-Hraun is an older building so the cells are not as nice there.
- chmod775 5y ago
  That's... just a prison cell like you'd find in many places. Looking at that picture I'm unsure what makes it "nice" except for the fact that it looks somewhat freshly built. Cells are cells. What really differentiates prisons is everything around them and what amenities and workshops are offered.
  - StanislavPetrov 5y ago

bsd44 5y ago

Media Lens wrote about this in July and it was also posted here on HN: https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-remarkable-silence-media-blackout-after-key-witness-against-assange-admits-lying/ https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-remarkable-silence-media-bl...

kjaftaedi 5y ago
The story in the article (Sigurður being sent to prison) only happened two weeks ago. The link you are posting is a summary of a previous article written by the same authors at Stundin.
graedus 5y ago
HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710075

animal_spirits 5y ago

> Sigurdur Thordarson, a key witness for the FBI against Julian Assange, has been jailed in Iceland Oh! This guy was supposed to be a witness _for_ the FBI _against_ Assange. From the title I assumed the opposite.

nimbius 5y ago

If i were to describe the Assange case in a word, it would be myopic. once again the US has decided this is the hill it will die on. instead of reforming intelligence agencies, challenging the doctrine of mass surveillance, revisiting the manifest destiny of imperialist foreign policy, or even considering the cost to do nothing at all, the US has arrived at the conclusion that a witch hunt is the best hunt. prosecuting and jailing Assange does absolutely nothing to stop Wikileaks or wilileaks->next(). Whatever effort the US spent to slander and discredit Assange does nothing to stop people inspired by him, or motivated by US foreign policy in countries that do not enjoy its favour. The US seems completely oblivious to the fact that whatever happens to Assange the journalist, it simply isnt enough to curtail the overwhelming cacophony of demand for free and open journalism across the internet. Just let the guy go and focus the money, time, and effort on preventing this in the future. nearly every major news outlet and journalist all see Assange as a journalist, not a hacker. .

Jack200 5y ago
No most mainstream news outlets in the U.S. and the U.K. consider Assange to be a “Hacker” and a “Criminal”
advael 5y ago
The US' priority in situations like this is overwhelmingly to provide evidence that the threats it makes with criminal laws and defense of national secrets are credible. It has time and time again chosen to die on hills like this. The ethics and optics of it don't seem to factor much into the decisionmaking
- lazide 5y ago
  When power reaches a certain level, it isn’t about being seen doing the right or ethical thing. It is about demonstrating that it can and will be used against whoever they want with impunity, even if it’s clearly wrong, and they will get away with it. It stops a lot of people from even attempting to challenge them, and just do what they want without question, which has many advantages. In some situations, it’s even legitimately necessary. It’s also prone to abuse of course. In order to keep this kind of power, it’s necessary to demonstrate from time to time this power exists and will be used, since if people start not being afraid of having their lives ruined if they challenge said power legitimately, they also stop going along with demands from those in power unquestioningly. And a lot of the ability to destroy someone for whatever reason (including legitimate ones) depends on that unquestioning compliance. You can think of it as a form of ‘bend the knee’.

encryptluks2 5y ago

I keep seeing these random sites popup saying he is a key witness. I assure you they still have a case with or without his support.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago
More accurate to they have no case, with or without his support.

asdefghyk 5y ago

About Assange potentially being extradited to America for trial. I contrast it with Prince Andrew. A normal person would be facing criminal charges and have been extradited to America for trial. One justice system for the rich and another justice system for people like Assange

zwww 5y ago

The key takeaway is not that they jailed him now. They should've and probably could have jailed him long ago. My understanding is that he, a convicted pedophile and all around sociopath, seemingly totally bent on pursuing wildly antisocial endeavours, was protected up until now. He strategically contacted the FBI which was able to lean on the Icelandic law enforcement through a diplomatic route to grant him unofficial immunity, as long as he served the purpose of going after Assange. Now that he admitted his testimony was based on lies, he is no longer useful and Iceland's law enforcement is finally free to do its job. He was jailed now because he betrayed his loyalty of his handlers. I wonder why he decided to break that, it seems like such a complete blunder. Perhaps he realised his testimony wouldn't hold up in court. Really wish the interview mentioned in the article would be translated to English but I can't find it.