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Tesla’s Texas Move Is Latest Sign of California Losing Tech Grip
- kgin 5y agoNo one single metropolitan area should have a grip on the industry that is gradually consuming the entire economy.
- jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 5y agoTesla is continuing to expand Fremont. Austin happens to have a huge Gigafactory opening up which will require extra attention during ramping and it's closer to SpaceX's operations in South Texas. It seems like a much more convenient location for Elon to have his HQ. You don't have to interpret every corporate move as a slight againt California.
- Finnucane 5y agoThis isn’t entirely a bad thing. Trying to cram everything into coastal areas is not sustainable.
- spaetzleesser 5y agoAgreed. The country will be better off if things spread out a little over tthe country. You could argue that the high density of companies in SV is actually causing a lot of problems for a lot of people who need a place to live.
- dasil003 5y agoIt’s funny to me whenever someone makes this argument that the cause of the housing crisis is too many successful companies. Most cities are bending over backwards to get some of these jobs, will it cause the same problems in those cities, if not why not? The whole thing feels like a narrative attempt at scapegoating versus the more direct hypothesis: you can not constrain supply to near flat in a growing region and expect things to work out, but of course this is very hard to address since current policies benefit existing property owners.
- Finnucane 5y agoIt’s not just housing, but essential supplies like food and water are stressed. Transportation infrastructure is overloaded. Degradation of environmental resources, made worse by global warming. The percentage of the population living in coastal counties keeps increasing. It is not sustainable.
- closeparen 5y agoMost places grow by sprawl with few if any complaints. Density would be contentious anywhere; the coastal housing crisis cities are unique in that it's their only option.
- jinushaun 5y agoEverybody needs water to survive, but you can still drown in too much of it.
- jonnycomputer 5y agoI mostly worry about cultural divergence and growing discontent.
- ctur 5y agohttp://archive.today/bFoXm http://archive.today/bFoXm
- glutamate 5y agoI'm here to remind you of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Heartbeat_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Heartbeat_Act
- the_real_me 5y agoBelieve it or not, there are some people in the tech community who actually think this is a good thing. Some even believe that there are only two genders!
- EliRivers 5y agoIndeed; people in the tech community often think of themselves as somehow especially rational, and sometimes as hyper-logical with reduced biases, but that's just the tech community's particular self-delusion. The tech community contains the full spectrum just like every other.
- newsclues 5y agoDo the rational tech people believe the science of gametes or do they put their faith in a different belief on how gender works?
- EliRivers 5y agoThere aren't any rational tech people; just tech people who believe they are free of bias.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y agoThey differentiate between biological sex (which is also more complex when considered in full) from gender. It's quite simple really.
- dashundchen 5y agoThis argument relies entirely on the (almost always intentional) misunderstanding that sex is the same as gender or its social expression.
- yalogin 5y agoTesla’s move has nothing to do with California. Musk got his ego hurt because he wasn’t given special treatment during covid when he asked for special exemption to run his plants. He may have chosen Texas for the taxes but he would have moved even if Texas didn’t exist, may be.
- WannaFly 5y agoActually it's pretty expensive to do business in California https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/05/tesla-must-pay-137-million-in-discrimination-lawsuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/05/tesla-must-pay-137-million...
- roenxi 5y agoA state refusing to let him run his business seems like it might be a contributing factor if he later decides not to run his business from that state.
- ajross 5y agoI think way too much is being made of this. They're moving the "HQ". The reason tech companies start in the Bay Area (talent hiring) isn't really affected, they aren't moving any engineers. And the big thing they're doing in Texas, the giant factory beginning to ramp in Austin, has been known for years. It's not like they were going to build a second Bay Area gigafactory...
- inglor_cz 5y agoI, on the other hand, think that this is part of a trend. Hotspots like California rarely stay on the very top for more than 3-4 decades. After that, a certain rot starts to set in and new players find it easier to pitch up their tent elsewhere, where NIMBYism isn't as strong, landlords are less extortionate and governments more friendly.
- JKCalhoun 5y agoI agree that there is a trend away from California, doubt it is related to NIMBY-ism, governments. When Hewlett & Packard or Steve & Steve kicked off their businesses in the Bay Area it wasn't because government was friendly or NIMBY-ism was lacking. Now it's simply too damn expensive to live in the Bay Area, too expensive therefore to hire. That's the cost of success and why the 3 to 4 (5 to 7?) decade trend. Austin will become too expensive and everyone will head to North Carolina (or wherever) in a few decades....
- inglor_cz 5y agoWell, NIMBYism is a function of population density and governments which want to attract tax dollars are less confrontational than those that are used to having a massive tax base. Where I live, the regions that have less investment and fewer people fight over investments (including railways and roads), while the richer ones like Prague often find reasons why to slow down or even stop such developments. But yeah, this awaits Texas too and 2050 will have a new champion. Perhaps North Carolina, who knows.
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- numair 5y agoThis is the second time these PayPal mafia-types have tried to make a California exodus happen. First time was right after their liquidity event, when they moved to all of the usual states where you go (Washington, Nevada, whatever). It didn’t work. There is this amazing thing that happens in California, where culture and technology go to war with each other and engage in a death match that creates better technology and (sometimes, like in the 90s) better culture. This doesn’t really happen anywhere else. And if this is the end of that cycle, it’s sad for a whole lot more than the people who live in California. So, I hope it fails once again. I wish these stories were written as they should be: “economic migrants who became rich off California decide to leave the state, try to turn it into a social movement.” For some reason that only happens when right-wing politicians want to paint non-members of a certain ethnicity as a bunch of parasites...
- jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 5y agoTesla is not leaving California, they're continuing to expand operations in Fremont. It's just that Tesla is now a worldwide company and Texas happens to be a more convenient location for the time being.
- acdha 5y agoThey’re moving because this allows the top earners to not pay state income tax. We don’t need to dress it up at any more noble than that.
- JKCalhoun 5y agoThat is likely true. I was surprised though at how high property taxes are in Texas (relative to California where I have lived for some time). Also, toll roads. It's almost like you got to pay for things somehow. ;-) The cost of housing is so far down the ladder with regard to the Bay Area though that even with the higher property tax rates, it's still probably a money-saving move to head to Texas. (The toll road thing is a crazy regressive tax though, IMHO.)
- ericmay 5y agoI think Elon is playing the long game and there are some other side benefits. Is he frustrated with California? For sure. He’s also close to SpaceX operations in Texas where he’ll be spending a lot of time, but the long con I think he is playing is this: Conservatives don’t like California. Electric cars are a “liberal” thing. Except when a guy like Elon says government bad, California bad, taxes bad, I’m moving to Texas to hang out with the cool kids and then all of a sudden he’s made it acceptable culturally for conservatives to own electric cars because hey he’s a Texas guy now. Pair that with his maverick reputation and now he’s yet again accelerating EV adoption by reducing cultural barriers. It’ll be telling if Texas reverses their anti-market laws preventing Tesla from being able to sell cars in Texas. That’s the first sign. Elon doesn’t need to win over liberals - they’re on the EV train already. But he does have to make friends with and win over conservatives. Does he have this master plan? Doubt it. But it’ll work out this way anyway IMO.
- user_named 5y agoThe cool kids are in Texas now?
- greenonions 5y agoI have a suspicion that many conservative people will take to electric vehicles easier than many think. The f150 lightning I'm sure will be mocked mercilessly, but when people actually get a sense for that acceleration, the convenience, and overall experience, they'll switch.
- ericmay 5y agoYea… we are on a road trip right now. Tons of people at every super charger stop ask questions. Guaranteed at least one. Some drive trucks! But it’s going to be an economics choice. Electric for now (ever?) is just way cheaper.
- hairofadog 5y agoDo you somehow have an electric F150? Or just an electric car? (Asking because I’d love to hear about someone’s first-hand experience with the F150)
- spodek 5y agoWhy do we view communities as competing with each other? How does people working in Texas, or China for that matter, hurt people in California? Don't we want people everywhere thriving?
- GaryTang 5y agoPerhaps because it informs our future investments. If we see some communities are thriving and others are not, it may be more prudent to live or invest where there is more potential of future prosperity.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pacetherace 5y agoPeople raving about moving to Texas is plain stupid. Housing prices in places like Austin have increased to unaffordable levels for many locals. They are affordable only for California transplants.
- JKCalhoun 5y agoI think it exactly is people moving from California to Texas. Also, my sense is that the whole country is experiencing unaffordable housing for many (he says while watching real estate prices in Omaha skyrocket in the past year).
- detaro 5y agoyesterdays thread about the move announcement itself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28793615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28793615
- echopurity 5y agoAll cons go to Texas.
- m0llusk 5y agoOne of the reasons California stays on the leading edge is that yesterday's tech is continually being shed off
- chrischattin 5y agoThe only reason to start a tech company in CA was the proximity to talent and capital. I always found it funny that supposedly cutting edge high tech VC’s wanted you nearby when we had all the tools to base anywhere in the world. Seemed like they were unnecessarily limiting deal potential. Same thing with engineers. Now that remote work has accelerated into the mainstream, there is zero reason to base in CA, and many reasons to go elsewhere. Edit: also, the CA of today is very different from the one that cradled the computing industry.
- gumby 5y agoMiddle class effective tax rate is higher in Texas (but lower as you get richer). But I suspect it’s more labor laws. A lot of Tesla’s conflict with the state has been around worker safety.
- ryanmarsh 5y agoEffective tax rate based upon what? There’s no state income tax.
- dreamcompiler 5y agoTexas makes up for "no income tax" with high property and sales taxes.
- rsj_hn 5y agoTexas has high property tax rates, but some of the lowest sales tax rates in the country (6.25%), and no income tax. It it is the higher property tax rates that cause property prices to be lower, so that the actual property tax paid is not too high compared to a low property tax rate/high property value state like California. Effectively a lot of the money that, in California, goes to landlords or housing investors, in Texas goes to the state via taxes on land. This is due to the superior efficiency of land taxes versus income taxes. Land taxes are "free" money that do not hurt economic activity. But property taxes cover both land and structure, so it's not the perfect tax system - however it's pretty close.
- dreamcompiler 5y agoThanks for clarifying. It's been a while since I lived in Texas. I also recall being taxed yearly on my cars to pay for the schools, which was not onerous but struck me as unusual. Is that still a thing?
- rsj_hn 5y agoFor vehicles, it's the standard sales tax when you purchase it, net of any sales taxes you paid to other states. Registration is about $50 plus local surcharges, maybe another $10-$20. There is list here: https://www.txdmv.gov/sites/default/files/body-files/FeeChart_1C.pdf https://www.txdmv.gov/sites/default/files/body-files/FeeChar... In terms of it funding schools, it's fungible money going into state or local coffers, so that's more of a political thing to justify the fee. Schools get some funding from the state and the rest from local government. The fungibility of money must be one of the best kept secrets in politics.
- degram09 5y ago"Tech" is a rather meaningless term. In any case, Tesla is much more like GM or Ford than like Google or Microsoft: They are a car company with a business that's very hard to scale. Zero chance that they become a monopoly in their space. Autonomous cars are a pipe dream and Tesla's stock price is extremely inflated because Musk has successfully convinced investors that Tesla is a tech company in the sense of GAFAM. Therefore, Teslas "move" doesn't mean a lot to California's "tech grip"
- SlipperySlope 5y agoPut the comment in your freezer and defrost in 2030. Tesla is currently old standard oil plus old Ford motor. Tesla will make robots happen in Austin.
- ryanmarsh 5y agoA story in three parts: @LorenaSGonzalez: F*ck Elon Musk @elonmusk: @LorenaSGonzalez Message received SF Chronicle: BREAKING: Tesla will move its headquarters from Palo Alto to Austin, Texas, CEO Elon Musk said at the company's annual shareholder meeting Thursday. https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1446248026540896262?s=20 https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1446248026540896262?s=2...
- klyrs 5y agoThis reminds me of when Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago. HQ lost touch with the operations, and I see the 737Max as a direct consequence. Tesla's safety record is already pretty shoddy... I don't see this going well.
- cryptodan 5y agoBlame higher cost of living, taxes, lack of law enforcement, and higher level of homelessness.