3 ms·

Why the capitalisation of 'black' and 'latino', but not 'white'? Is there a grammatical rule, or is it just politics?

hnbad 5y ago
It's both! Fun fact: language evolves with its use and so does spelling. Here's a longer explanation: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-capitalize-word-black_l_5f342ca1c5b6960c066faea5 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-capitalize-word-black_l_5... It explains why Black is capitalized but it also explains the reasoning behind some style guides deciding one way or the other when it comes to (w|W)hite. The short version is that prior to the move to capitalize Black white supremacists were already capitalizing White so doing it sends some mixed messages especially when you don't already have a clear reputation for being anti-racist (resolving the ambiguity). Additionally white and Black as racial categories work very differently: operationally, (to use a strained analogy I just now came up with that someone will surely try to poke holes into) white behaves as a racial category like bald does as a hair color (i.e. it's defined by the absence of other qualifiers, hence the "one drop" rhetoric). If you want to better understand the reasoning behind treating white differently, I suggest looking into articles about decolonization but it can take some suspension of judgement to understand the full reasoning if you're used to thinking everything is fine and nothing fundamentally needs to change. If you already let out an audible groan when seeing the URL of the article I linked, I suggest moving on to a different topic and coming back to it when you're in a more curious mood.
- hnbad 5y ago
  I know the following technically violates the guidelines because I will take about voting behavior but HN itself hasn't been sticking to its guidelines since forever and no amount of wishful thinking will prevent people to vote based on political alignment rather than "productive participation": This was literally the least offensive, non-political and middle of the road way to explain this yet it keeps getting downvoted and now sits at -2. But HN is a place of intellectual curiosity and doesn't have a racism or sexism problem. People just come here to share interesting facts and neat hacks and everything is apolitical. It's just a coincidence that openly white supremacist comments don't even get flagged and anything even remotely acknowledging racial issues gets downvoted. No, sire, nothing to see here, move along. Ceterum censeo HN bad.
crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
Maybe it's because "white" people don't have white skin? I've literally never met anyone with #FFFFFF skin tone. There's just people who think they're white and who others would identify as white. Doesn't make them whiter... So no, let's not give lying equal respect in grammar. Let's show the distinction and deny people who think they're white any kind of collective class recognition. If you want capitalization, here it is: people who THINK they're white.
- LocalH 5y ago
  Black people don't have #000000 skin tone, either.
  - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
    They also didn't choose to be labeled by their skin color. It's the white body supremacy game where that came from. It's up to people who think they're white to start abandoning these lies because it's people who think they're white who persist the lies.
- secondcoming 5y ago
  Lying? I don't understand anything you wrote, or how it relates to punctuation.
  - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
    "white skin" is literally not true. Same for "I am white." These are constructs of white body supremacy. They're lies.
    - secondcoming 5y ago
      Oh right

It's both! Fun fact: language evolves with its use and so does spelling. Here's a longer explanation: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-capitalize-word-black_l_5f342ca1c5b6960c066faea5 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-capitalize-word-black_l_5... It explains why Black is capitalized but it also explains the reasoning behind some style guides deciding one way or the other when it comes to (w|W)hite. The short version is that prior to the move to capitalize Black white supremacists were already capitalizing White so doing it sends some mixed messages especially when you don't already have a clear reputation for being anti-racist (resolving the ambiguity). Additionally white and Black as racial categories work very differently: operationally, (to use a strained analogy I just now came up with that someone will surely try to poke holes into) white behaves as a racial category like bald does as a hair color (i.e. it's defined by the absence of other qualifiers, hence the "one drop" rhetoric). If you want to better understand the reasoning behind treating white differently, I suggest looking into articles about decolonization but it can take some suspension of judgement to understand the full reasoning if you're used to thinking everything is fine and nothing fundamentally needs to change. If you already let out an audible groan when seeing the URL of the article I linked, I suggest moving on to a different topic and coming back to it when you're in a more curious mood.

hnbad 5y ago
I know the following technically violates the guidelines because I will take about voting behavior but HN itself hasn't been sticking to its guidelines since forever and no amount of wishful thinking will prevent people to vote based on political alignment rather than "productive participation": This was literally the least offensive, non-political and middle of the road way to explain this yet it keeps getting downvoted and now sits at -2. But HN is a place of intellectual curiosity and doesn't have a racism or sexism problem. People just come here to share interesting facts and neat hacks and everything is apolitical. It's just a coincidence that openly white supremacist comments don't even get flagged and anything even remotely acknowledging racial issues gets downvoted. No, sire, nothing to see here, move along. Ceterum censeo HN bad.

crawfordcomeaux 5y ago

Maybe it's because "white" people don't have white skin? I've literally never met anyone with #FFFFFF skin tone. There's just people who think they're white and who others would identify as white. Doesn't make them whiter... So no, let's not give lying equal respect in grammar. Let's show the distinction and deny people who think they're white any kind of collective class recognition. If you want capitalization, here it is: people who THINK they're white.

LocalH 5y ago
Black people don't have #000000 skin tone, either.
- crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
  They also didn't choose to be labeled by their skin color. It's the white body supremacy game where that came from. It's up to people who think they're white to start abandoning these lies because it's people who think they're white who persist the lies.
secondcoming 5y ago
Lying? I don't understand anything you wrote, or how it relates to punctuation.
- crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
  "white skin" is literally not true. Same for "I am white." These are constructs of white body supremacy. They're lies.
  - secondcoming 5y ago
    Oh right