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Conversation I was having with my dad (a dairy and grain farmer in the midwest) earlier this week ‘I wonder what the market for an open source tractor is?’ Not

Conversation I was having with my dad (a dairy and grain farmer in the midwest) earlier this week ‘I wonder what the market for an open source tractor is?’ Not sure about autonomous, but just something you own, that you have full schematics and design specs for, and can repair yourself — seems like a huge market given the state of things right now.

opinion-is-bad 5y ago
The biggest problem with product development for agriculture use cases is that the conditions are extreme, every situation is unique, and the customers don’t really want what you are selling. It adds up to a lot of failed companies with good ideas that just couldn’t crack the distribution layer. There is definitely demand for tractors from new producers. The inability to repair a tractor during harvest is simply unacceptable. Their technicians can take weeks to get around to you, especially if you are a small shop.
- Delk 5y ago
  What kinds of repair needs do you usually run into that require vendor's technicians? Is it e.g. electrical, or are they the stereotypical "everything is a computer" type of problems that everybody complains about in cars? Can you try to fix even mechanical problems yourself, or are those typically not the issue? Asking out of plain curiosity.
  - opinion-is-bad 5y ago
    It depends on the OEM, but in the worst cases it’s essentially anything. You can’t even change your own oil.
randomdata 5y ago
> seems like a huge market given the state of things right now. It's true that parts availability has been somewhat of a problem as of late, especially when computer chips are involved, but I am not sure it being open source really improves on that. If the OEM cannot keep up with production, your DIY/local supplier efforts are likely to suffer from the same capacity problems. It's not like you're going to setup your own silicon fab on a whim when your tractor breaks down in the middle of harvest.
hosh 5y ago
Were you thinking about this? https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/LifeTrac https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/LifeTrac
- TimSchumann 5y ago
  Hadn’t seen that. Thanks for passing it along.
  - hosh 5y ago
    This is the TED Talk about version 1, and the vision of a different kind of technology base: https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blueprints_for_civilization https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blu... Marcin et al., had also designed and built an open source earth brick maker, and trialed it in building buildings out of it. The advantage is being able to source building materials on site. I don’t know how far the organization has gone in designing and prototyping the other devices they have on their roadmap.
dd_roger 5y ago
The explosion in the number of sofware components in modern tractors and combines is inherent to what we expect from them. If your open source tractor is essentially a tractor from 20 years ago without the fancy new tech then there's no market for it. Just lookup how much tractors from before the "e-tractor era" go for. I'll break it to you, it's not a lot. I think people who aren't involved with farming can't really comprehend the amount of technology involved and the savings that technology enables (and ultimately makes it worth it even if the equipment is more difficult/expensive to repair). As an aside, we always hear complaints about John Deere and never other manufacturers. I wonder if it's because anti-corporate populism works better when it's targeted at a well known american brand or if John Deere is truely that bad. We don't have any modern John Deeres in my area but a few Case IH and Claas, and I've never heard any complaints. Btw my point isn't to justify the anti-consumer behavior of some manufacturers, but to provide context as to why "an open source tractor" is a completely naive idea.

opinion-is-bad 5y ago

The biggest problem with product development for agriculture use cases is that the conditions are extreme, every situation is unique, and the customers don’t really want what you are selling. It adds up to a lot of failed companies with good ideas that just couldn’t crack the distribution layer. There is definitely demand for tractors from new producers. The inability to repair a tractor during harvest is simply unacceptable. Their technicians can take weeks to get around to you, especially if you are a small shop.

Delk 5y ago
What kinds of repair needs do you usually run into that require vendor's technicians? Is it e.g. electrical, or are they the stereotypical "everything is a computer" type of problems that everybody complains about in cars? Can you try to fix even mechanical problems yourself, or are those typically not the issue? Asking out of plain curiosity.
- opinion-is-bad 5y ago
  It depends on the OEM, but in the worst cases it’s essentially anything. You can’t even change your own oil.

randomdata 5y ago

> seems like a huge market given the state of things right now. It's true that parts availability has been somewhat of a problem as of late, especially when computer chips are involved, but I am not sure it being open source really improves on that. If the OEM cannot keep up with production, your DIY/local supplier efforts are likely to suffer from the same capacity problems. It's not like you're going to setup your own silicon fab on a whim when your tractor breaks down in the middle of harvest.

hosh 5y ago

Were you thinking about this? https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/LifeTrac https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/LifeTrac

TimSchumann 5y ago
Hadn’t seen that. Thanks for passing it along.
- hosh 5y ago
  This is the TED Talk about version 1, and the vision of a different kind of technology base: https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blueprints_for_civilization https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blu... Marcin et al., had also designed and built an open source earth brick maker, and trialed it in building buildings out of it. The advantage is being able to source building materials on site. I don’t know how far the organization has gone in designing and prototyping the other devices they have on their roadmap.

dd_roger 5y ago

The explosion in the number of sofware components in modern tractors and combines is inherent to what we expect from them. If your open source tractor is essentially a tractor from 20 years ago without the fancy new tech then there's no market for it. Just lookup how much tractors from before the "e-tractor era" go for. I'll break it to you, it's not a lot. I think people who aren't involved with farming can't really comprehend the amount of technology involved and the savings that technology enables (and ultimately makes it worth it even if the equipment is more difficult/expensive to repair). As an aside, we always hear complaints about John Deere and never other manufacturers. I wonder if it's because anti-corporate populism works better when it's targeted at a well known american brand or if John Deere is truely that bad. We don't have any modern John Deeres in my area but a few Case IH and Claas, and I've never heard any complaints. Btw my point isn't to justify the anti-consumer behavior of some manufacturers, but to provide context as to why "an open source tractor" is a completely naive idea.