4 ms·

I guess the free market has spoken and what is wants is no more free markets. Apple is shooting itself in the foot with this. More choice in products is alway

I guess the free market has spoken and what is wants is no more free markets. Apple is shooting itself in the foot with this. More choice in products is always better than less.

bb88 5y ago
I disagree. What's worse than trying to pick between 10 different apps that do the exact same thing? Trying to pick between 11 different apps.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  I face the same problem every time I buy mustard at the supermarket. Dozens of flavors to choose from and only so much money. The tyranny of choice is a small price to pay.
  - i_like_apis 5y ago
    But the supermarket is a walled garden too. They choose what to put on the shelf based on quality and shelf space. Buying mustard on Amazon is closer to the issue, or products where many imitators compete like meal prep Tupperware or water bottles.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      >But the supermarket is a walled garden too. They choose what to put on the shelf based on quality and shelf space. Big supermarket chains are the ultimate walled gardens our modern society and it's crazy they've been allowed to go through with their practices for so long. Unless you're some 400 pound gorilla like Unilever or Nestle, trying to get your product on a supermarket's shelves resembles a mob shakedown. The margins they'll try to squeeze out of you are insane.
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      >> But the supermarket is a walled garden too. From my perspective as a customer there is no wall. I am free to go to any other market and pick from their mustard selection. Or I can grow and mill my own mustard at home. That would be like Apple allowing me to use competitor app stores and even install my own open source software.
      - nickpp 5y ago
        Or choosing a different phone, just like going to a different market.
- arduinomancer 5y ago
  How would you know the 10 apps are really the best options?
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  The fun begins when 9 of these apps are left to rot and the remaining one moves to a subscription model. There’s a ton of single use, very simple apps that only have super crappy alternatives left because Apple didn’t want to bother improving the Store app ratings and search functionalities. All the more after Apple in its infinite wisdom started banning apps that were “too simple” (like one single screen). There’s a few of these apps that kept working through a few OS version updates but finally couldn’t run anymore, and it looks like my only choice is to remake them myself. If instead of 10 we had 90 of these, there would be a fighting chance that more were still maintained or got open sourced.
  - dehrmann 5y ago
    > The fun begins when 9 of these apps are left to rot and the remaining one moves to a subscription model. Sounds like a solid business model if you control all 10 apps.
- i_like_apis 5y ago
  Even worse, searching for a certain high quality app and not being able to find it among a heap of low quality imitators.
- ehnto 5y ago
  I have to assume you just haven't thought very hard about this problem yet, as that is a very trivial reason to give up on a free market. I would also like to point out that the ecosystem that gets you ten apps doing the same thing is the reason you get any apps at all. If people thought they were competing for one or two slots in a rigged marketplace then the incentives to participate go way down, they would take their skills elsewhere. The music industry might be a good parallel. The record labels thought they were the gatekeepers, but the majority of the music industry is happening outside big record labels now. If you want the big corporate to choose what you listen to, you get boring manufactured trite. If you want innovation, competence and craftsmanship, look anywhere else.
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    > look anywhere else. But on iPhones, you can’t. There’s only one App Store , and that’s the problem.
    - ehnto 5y ago
      I totally agree, that's why they can push back developers and still have some supply. But there would be a point of diminishing returns I think, where you would see app submissions decline enough to be troublesome.
  - bb88 5y ago
    > I have to assume you just haven't thought very hard about this problem yet Your argument is the number one reason HN sucks lately. If you don't agree, the other party must be stupid. If you want complete free choice about which flowers you should choose for a bouquet, then go to the wilderness. It will take you a while to find what you're looking for and you'll likely come across a lot of crappy looking flowers, but it's a completely free choice. If you want quality choices in a quick amount of time, then go to the florist. Apple's app store is a walled garden. So, make that garden as good as possible. They hire "gardeners" for that reason. In fairness I have an android, and it's worse there. Reviews are faked, and critical bugs or bad ui prevent usefulness. This is with both the free apps and paid apps.
- swiley 5y ago
  If you don't like too many choices then just stop looking. Why does everyone else on the platform have to suffer for you?
worrycue 5y ago
> More choice in products is always better than less. Not if your market gets flooded with low quality products resulting in the loss of consumer confidence in your market. The 80s video game crash was partly caused by that. But I suppose the effects vary. I’m afraid to buy from Amazon due to reading about the amount of counterfeit products in their store but it hasn’t dampen Amazon’s sales. P.S. In certain markets like games, clone games can be a problem. It disincentivize innovation. Why work so hard tuning and balancing a game with unique mechanics when a clone with the exact same gameplay will just come in and take your sales by undercutting you - since they don’t have the level of expense you do. A walled garden can protect games from cheap knockoff clones.
viraptor 5y ago
> More choice in products is always better than less. Have you tried to buy any electronics from Amazon/Ebay recently? Same products listed tens of times from likely same distributors (or maybe actually many distributors fighting for scraps?). Tiny differences in naming for SEO purposes flood the first few pages of results. 3 listings are better than 1 (for competition / keeping price reasonable). 100 listings are not better than 3. Similar thing happens on appstore, just slightly different methods. You can't even search for the exact name anymore, because the ad and the first result will be something completely different.
cblconfederate 5y ago
Apple's entire offering is that more choice is not better.`

I guess the free market has spoken and what is wants is no more free markets. Apple is shooting itself in the foot with this. More choice in products is always better than less.

bb88 5y ago

I disagree. What's worse than trying to pick between 10 different apps that do the exact same thing? Trying to pick between 11 different apps.

sandworm101 5y ago
I face the same problem every time I buy mustard at the supermarket. Dozens of flavors to choose from and only so much money. The tyranny of choice is a small price to pay.
- i_like_apis 5y ago
  But the supermarket is a walled garden too. They choose what to put on the shelf based on quality and shelf space. Buying mustard on Amazon is closer to the issue, or products where many imitators compete like meal prep Tupperware or water bottles.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >But the supermarket is a walled garden too. They choose what to put on the shelf based on quality and shelf space. Big supermarket chains are the ultimate walled gardens our modern society and it's crazy they've been allowed to go through with their practices for so long. Unless you're some 400 pound gorilla like Unilever or Nestle, trying to get your product on a supermarket's shelves resembles a mob shakedown. The margins they'll try to squeeze out of you are insane.
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    >> But the supermarket is a walled garden too. From my perspective as a customer there is no wall. I am free to go to any other market and pick from their mustard selection. Or I can grow and mill my own mustard at home. That would be like Apple allowing me to use competitor app stores and even install my own open source software.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Or choosing a different phone, just like going to a different market.
arduinomancer 5y ago
How would you know the 10 apps are really the best options?
makeitdouble 5y ago
The fun begins when 9 of these apps are left to rot and the remaining one moves to a subscription model. There’s a ton of single use, very simple apps that only have super crappy alternatives left because Apple didn’t want to bother improving the Store app ratings and search functionalities. All the more after Apple in its infinite wisdom started banning apps that were “too simple” (like one single screen). There’s a few of these apps that kept working through a few OS version updates but finally couldn’t run anymore, and it looks like my only choice is to remake them myself. If instead of 10 we had 90 of these, there would be a fighting chance that more were still maintained or got open sourced.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  > The fun begins when 9 of these apps are left to rot and the remaining one moves to a subscription model. Sounds like a solid business model if you control all 10 apps.
i_like_apis 5y ago
Even worse, searching for a certain high quality app and not being able to find it among a heap of low quality imitators.
ehnto 5y ago
I have to assume you just haven't thought very hard about this problem yet, as that is a very trivial reason to give up on a free market. I would also like to point out that the ecosystem that gets you ten apps doing the same thing is the reason you get any apps at all. If people thought they were competing for one or two slots in a rigged marketplace then the incentives to participate go way down, they would take their skills elsewhere. The music industry might be a good parallel. The record labels thought they were the gatekeepers, but the majority of the music industry is happening outside big record labels now. If you want the big corporate to choose what you listen to, you get boring manufactured trite. If you want innovation, competence and craftsmanship, look anywhere else.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  > look anywhere else. But on iPhones, you can’t. There’s only one App Store , and that’s the problem.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    I totally agree, that's why they can push back developers and still have some supply. But there would be a point of diminishing returns I think, where you would see app submissions decline enough to be troublesome.
- bb88 5y ago
  > I have to assume you just haven't thought very hard about this problem yet Your argument is the number one reason HN sucks lately. If you don't agree, the other party must be stupid. If you want complete free choice about which flowers you should choose for a bouquet, then go to the wilderness. It will take you a while to find what you're looking for and you'll likely come across a lot of crappy looking flowers, but it's a completely free choice. If you want quality choices in a quick amount of time, then go to the florist. Apple's app store is a walled garden. So, make that garden as good as possible. They hire "gardeners" for that reason. In fairness I have an android, and it's worse there. Reviews are faked, and critical bugs or bad ui prevent usefulness. This is with both the free apps and paid apps.
swiley 5y ago
If you don't like too many choices then just stop looking. Why does everyone else on the platform have to suffer for you?

worrycue 5y ago

> More choice in products is always better than less. Not if your market gets flooded with low quality products resulting in the loss of consumer confidence in your market. The 80s video game crash was partly caused by that. But I suppose the effects vary. I’m afraid to buy from Amazon due to reading about the amount of counterfeit products in their store but it hasn’t dampen Amazon’s sales. P.S. In certain markets like games, clone games can be a problem. It disincentivize innovation. Why work so hard tuning and balancing a game with unique mechanics when a clone with the exact same gameplay will just come in and take your sales by undercutting you - since they don’t have the level of expense you do. A walled garden can protect games from cheap knockoff clones.

viraptor 5y ago

> More choice in products is always better than less. Have you tried to buy any electronics from Amazon/Ebay recently? Same products listed tens of times from likely same distributors (or maybe actually many distributors fighting for scraps?). Tiny differences in naming for SEO purposes flood the first few pages of results. 3 listings are better than 1 (for competition / keeping price reasonable). 100 listings are not better than 3. Similar thing happens on appstore, just slightly different methods. You can't even search for the exact name anymore, because the ad and the first result will be something completely different.

cblconfederate 5y ago

Apple's entire offering is that more choice is not better.`