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App Store development has me sort of offended. If I build it I’m not certain users can even try it unless apple (gatekeeper) decides their user base should. It’

App Store development has me sort of offended. If I build it I’m not certain users can even try it unless apple (gatekeeper) decides their user base should. It’s certainly a walled garden and perhaps a reason I’ve steered my career away from mobile development.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
We need to be able to use non-Apple app stores for iPhone.
- FractalParadigm 5y ago
  I was really hoping this would be the outcome of Epic v. Apple, but alas it was not. I honestly don't know if I understand any reasoning behind it. I would buy an iPhone tomorrow if I could get a web browser or keyboard that weren't effectively skins of the default/included one.
  - dliff 5y ago
    While web browsers on iOS are unfortunately just re-skinned Safari, you actually are able to create/download totally custom keyboards. A while back I created a custom keyboard to translate what you type and help you learn a new language.
    - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      > While web browsers on iOS are unfortunately just re-skinned Safari, Is that also true for Firefox, Chrome on iOS?
      - raydev 5y ago
        "Re-skinned Safari" is incorrect, but third party browsers must use the version of WebKit that ships with iOS. Third parties are not allowed to use their own rendering or JavaScript engines.
  - Elidrake24 5y ago
    You aren’t the market. Apple has curated a user base that prefers the exact opposite; I land among them. If it isn’t for you, then avoid it. That it is a more lucrative market than what Android had built with their more open ended approach is an interesting look at what the general public prefers from their mobile devices. Personally, I’m not looking for my phone to be a side project, I want it to work without putting in any effort.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      I wonder what is the overlap between people who want non-Apple stores in iOS and complain about Epic Store and Origins Store because Steam already exists :)
    - simion314 5y ago
      >Personally, I’m not looking for my phone to be a side project, Nobody would force you to use non Apple shit, when an alternative sore would exist you can ignore it, when a better browser will exist you can ignore it, when alternative better chargers exists you can still buy the Premium Apple charger. Apple fans should kiss Google ass because they can use the lazy excuse when Apple uses censorship "use an Android and side load apps if you don't like it".
    - yarcob 5y ago
      I don't think most people buy iPhones because of Apple's draconian control of software distribution, I think they buy them despite of it. If Apple sold two iPhones, one that allowed only apps from the App Store, and one that allowed apps from anywhere, I'm pretty sure most people would buy an iPhone that allowed 3rd party apps. The current state makes me a bit sad. I've been a long term Apple user, and I'm pretty sure my next phone is going to be some Android, because as much as I like the quality of Apple's products, I just no longer want to accept Apple's restrictions.
      - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        > I don't think most people buy iPhones because of Apple's draconian control of software distribution, I think they buy them despite of it. I don’t think it’s even that. Like the GP I just don’t care as long as what I need is available (and it is). As a developer it’s a different matter, despite liking the platform I won’t be putting any apps in the store.
  - curiousgal 5y ago
    This is a very unpopular opinion but I think anyone who has already bought an iPhone has waived their right to complain about Apple. As long as they've got your money I don't see why they should care, and they obviously don't. Alternatives exist so people should vote with their wallet.
- csomar 5y ago
  I'd rather have a single App Store which have a very limited selection of apps. On the other hand, make the browser powerful enough and you can then install any app you want. At this point, I really think Apple is sabotaging Safari on iOS. Here is a comparison with Chrome on Android: https://caniuse.com/?compare=ios_saf+15,and_chr+94&compareCats=all https://caniuse.com/?compare=ios_saf+15,and_chr+94&compareCa...
- jmull 5y ago
  Exactly. For any single app store — no matter who is running it or how — there has to be a line drawn somewhere about what should or shouldn’t be in it. (At the least you’re probably going to want to filter out illegal apps… but the line between legal and illegal is complex, uncertain, changes over time, and is different in different jurisdictions.) It’s fine — desirable even — for Apple to have wide leeway to decide what they want to have in their store. They just shouldn’t be able to stop people from shopping at other stores.
javajosh 5y ago
The odds of rejection should be just another factor in your expected value calculation though.
- bradly 5y ago
  https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/risk-of-ruin.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/risk-of-ruin.asp
singularity2001 5y ago
Google app store has (had?) the category "new apps" so people can find and try out fresh developments. It brought me 400 download the first day (which lead to many more). Sorely miss this kind of discoverability on the app store. Also Apples search sucks.
tinus_hn 5y ago
So sad your horoscope app will never see the light of day.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

We need to be able to use non-Apple app stores for iPhone.

FractalParadigm 5y ago
I was really hoping this would be the outcome of Epic v. Apple, but alas it was not. I honestly don't know if I understand any reasoning behind it. I would buy an iPhone tomorrow if I could get a web browser or keyboard that weren't effectively skins of the default/included one.
- dliff 5y ago
  While web browsers on iOS are unfortunately just re-skinned Safari, you actually are able to create/download totally custom keyboards. A while back I created a custom keyboard to translate what you type and help you learn a new language.
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    > While web browsers on iOS are unfortunately just re-skinned Safari, Is that also true for Firefox, Chrome on iOS?
    - raydev 5y ago
      "Re-skinned Safari" is incorrect, but third party browsers must use the version of WebKit that ships with iOS. Third parties are not allowed to use their own rendering or JavaScript engines.
- Elidrake24 5y ago
  You aren’t the market. Apple has curated a user base that prefers the exact opposite; I land among them. If it isn’t for you, then avoid it. That it is a more lucrative market than what Android had built with their more open ended approach is an interesting look at what the general public prefers from their mobile devices. Personally, I’m not looking for my phone to be a side project, I want it to work without putting in any effort.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    I wonder what is the overlap between people who want non-Apple stores in iOS and complain about Epic Store and Origins Store because Steam already exists :)
  - simion314 5y ago
    >Personally, I’m not looking for my phone to be a side project, Nobody would force you to use non Apple shit, when an alternative sore would exist you can ignore it, when a better browser will exist you can ignore it, when alternative better chargers exists you can still buy the Premium Apple charger. Apple fans should kiss Google ass because they can use the lazy excuse when Apple uses censorship "use an Android and side load apps if you don't like it".
  - yarcob 5y ago
    I don't think most people buy iPhones because of Apple's draconian control of software distribution, I think they buy them despite of it. If Apple sold two iPhones, one that allowed only apps from the App Store, and one that allowed apps from anywhere, I'm pretty sure most people would buy an iPhone that allowed 3rd party apps. The current state makes me a bit sad. I've been a long term Apple user, and I'm pretty sure my next phone is going to be some Android, because as much as I like the quality of Apple's products, I just no longer want to accept Apple's restrictions.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      > I don't think most people buy iPhones because of Apple's draconian control of software distribution, I think they buy them despite of it. I don’t think it’s even that. Like the GP I just don’t care as long as what I need is available (and it is). As a developer it’s a different matter, despite liking the platform I won’t be putting any apps in the store.
- curiousgal 5y ago
  This is a very unpopular opinion but I think anyone who has already bought an iPhone has waived their right to complain about Apple. As long as they've got your money I don't see why they should care, and they obviously don't. Alternatives exist so people should vote with their wallet.
csomar 5y ago
I'd rather have a single App Store which have a very limited selection of apps. On the other hand, make the browser powerful enough and you can then install any app you want. At this point, I really think Apple is sabotaging Safari on iOS. Here is a comparison with Chrome on Android: https://caniuse.com/?compare=ios_saf+15,and_chr+94&compareCats=all https://caniuse.com/?compare=ios_saf+15,and_chr+94&compareCa...
jmull 5y ago
Exactly. For any single app store — no matter who is running it or how — there has to be a line drawn somewhere about what should or shouldn’t be in it. (At the least you’re probably going to want to filter out illegal apps… but the line between legal and illegal is complex, uncertain, changes over time, and is different in different jurisdictions.) It’s fine — desirable even — for Apple to have wide leeway to decide what they want to have in their store. They just shouldn’t be able to stop people from shopping at other stores.

javajosh 5y ago

The odds of rejection should be just another factor in your expected value calculation though.

bradly 5y ago
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/risk-of-ruin.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/risk-of-ruin.asp

singularity2001 5y ago

Google app store has (had?) the category "new apps" so people can find and try out fresh developments. It brought me 400 download the first day (which lead to many more). Sorely miss this kind of discoverability on the app store. Also Apples search sucks.

tinus_hn 5y ago

So sad your horoscope app will never see the light of day.