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I'm an American who has worked in both the US and Europe and noticed differences. Here's a few quick thoughts on working in the US: - Do not talk about your sa

I'm an American who has worked in both the US and Europe and noticed differences. Here's a few quick thoughts on working in the US: - Do not talk about your salary. There are large disparities in income within the US and even within the same company for the same role, which is less common in Europe. - Many American work environments have more of a hierarchy within the company, particularly in more corporate environments. US companies are often more stratified. Some to the degree of oil and water. - As you already know, Americans value small talk more. They also tend to immerse more of their identity into their workplace. Avoid talking about politics. Opinions that are not left of center are essentially taboo to mention. - A fraction of your co-workers will be on the prescription drug Adderall, or an equivalent, and you probably won't know. Adderall is common amongst those from upper middle class backgrounds. They often don't need it yet take it as a performance enhancer. Money matters more in the US, and there's more competition to get it. - You will likely get less vacation. Not only that, you will be discouraged, though rarely explicitly, from taking it. - Working in tech in the US can be much better than in Europe. You'll make more money. US tech companies, unlike say law or finance, do offer many benefits, and if you choose the right company you can work less than 40 hours a week. For example, I plan to quit my US tech job because the hours are from 9am to 6pm. If you have to show up before 10am and you're not paid a multiple of six figures it might be a bad deal. For tech, I'd prefer to work in the US.

systemvoltage 5y ago
Agree with most points except these two: > - Many American work environments have more of a hierarchy within the company, particularly in more corporate environments. US companies are often more stratified. Some to the degree of oil and water. I found this the opposite. If we have a spectrum from Flat <-----> Hierarchical structure, then I've found the following: USA <----- Germany -----> Japan, where Japan is the most Hierarchical. > - You will likely get less vacation. Not only that, you will be discouraged, though rarely explicitly, from taking it. True you do get less vacation but it is not true that you will be discouraged. May be if you work at IBM or GE, etc. Not here in Silicon Valley, not in most modern corporations that were founded in last 20 years. Vacation is tremendously encouraged in all companies I've worked for and every other engineer I know. I think this might be true if you're in a <100 employee startup (< 4 year old company and VC backed). Spot on about politics and I prefer it that way. IMO politics, religion, activism, etc. is probably best to avoid at work.
- suction 5y ago
  May I add that inside the EU, the differences can be staggering? I worked in both German and French companies. The French ones were all much more hierarchically organised than the German ones. So much so that I started researching why, because from the outside, German culture seems to be more hierarchical than the French, but that's not true. In France, there is a cultural dogma for centralisation, exemplified by how they organise their country with Paris controlling everything. This way of thinking also is prevalent even in small companies: Every decisions flows top-down, there are simply no feedback channels bottom-up.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    Sure, I narrowed it to Germany having dealt with a handful of German companies. I am sure there are exceptions within Germany as well. Generalization can become quite contentious in discussions, but there is some value in understanding larger cultural phenomena, however broad brushed that might be. Thanks for adding color.
- jhallenworld 5y ago
  Not really true at IBM- I mean of course you got to take vacation. Also, you couldn't carry over vacation time, so often half the office was out last two or three weeks of December to use it up. Also on vacation time: you can negotiate for more. I knew someone who negotiated for a 4 day work-week, but that was a special case (along the lines of "I don't need to work anymore, so if you really want me it's going to be for 4 days a week only").
uwuuwuuwu 5y ago
Note that what is considered "left of center" in America would likely be significantly right of center to a European.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Not really. Europe is very left WRT economic structures and acceptance of certain social norms (nudity, athiesm), but would be considered right to far right WRT identity politics. All the Europeans I know think North America is insane WRT political correctness, identity politics, cancel culture, etc... It's just different... Also keep in mind vast swaths of Europe weren't colonizers, were conquered many times themselves, haven't seen much immigration, etc...
  - thundergolfer 5y ago
    More interesting I think than the opinions of “all the Europeans” you know on cancel culture would be the political status of abortion in Western Europe. The USA has a large number of people with far right abortion politics and they are succeeding at a federal level in getting their way. It would be interesting to see if Western Europe has any comparable level of social regressivism winning battles in court and parliament. I suspect Western Europe does not.
    - tticvs 5y ago
      You are aware that abortion is illegal in Germany right? It has been de facto "decriminalized" in the first trimester, since the government has declined to prosecute such cases, however a doctor even advertising that they perform abortions is grounds to lose their medical license. It is legal in other European countries, but I just want to point out that Europe is neither homogeneous nor universally "left" of the US
      - ebalit 5y ago
        This is the first time I read this and I'm very surprised that it is the case. Would you have a source I could read to learn more about this.
refurb 5y ago
Having worked in US and Europe this take is pretty anecdotal and more a reflection of Bay Area certain company culture. The US company I worked for encouraged vacation and offered almost the same amount as the European company I worked for (5 weeks). Nobody was on Adderall in the US and the Europeans were putting in just as many late nights as the Americans. I’d also argue that the Europeans often looked at the US politics as not “slightly left of center” but “fucking bonkers”.
- lilsoso 5y ago
  The only point I care to touch on is the Adderall usage. Europeans, I think, would be shocked by the prevalence. From the New York Times: "In the 1990s, an estimated 3 to 5 percent of school-age American children were believed to have A.D.H.D., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; by 2013, that figure was 11 percent." There's a stigma to these prescription drugs, so you co-workers will likely conceal the truth. And you won't be able to perceive they're on these substances. Americans have a more competitive work environment than Europeans. They're raised to succeed, as the stakes are higher (less of a safety net, student debt, housing prices, etc...). What's interesting, is that I suspect Adderall abuse is higher amongst those raised in upper middle class households. Adderall is common amongst my privileged friends, yet you would never know unless you were very close to them. In fact, they'll lie to others. The types from elite schools: Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley. The types in MD-PhD programs, FAANG companies, and "big law".
  - watwut 5y ago
    > From the New York Times: "In the 1990s, an estimated 3 to 5 percent of school-age American children were believed to have A.D.H.D., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; by 2013, that figure was 11 percent." That is not addreal statistic, but adhd in kids statistic.
    - lilsoso 5y ago
      The statistic from the NYT is estimated and you're missing the overall point. What % of children are admitted to Stanford? A sliver. What % of Stanford undergraduates make it to a "big law" firm? A small percentage. The speculative point is that US men from UMC households who were admitted to elite schools and who subsequently went on to competitive jobs have higher Adderall abuse rates than you might expect. No, you can't find statistics on it. And to make the matter more difficult, they'll lie to your face about the subject. This conjecture isn't even controversial, this notion is echoed throughout the broader culture. For example, see the following article from the New Yorker -- a magazine that caters to the families of these types: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/04/27/brain-gain https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/04/27/brain-gain . The article begins with the sentence, "A young man I’ll call Alex recently graduated from Harvard."

systemvoltage 5y ago

Agree with most points except these two: > - Many American work environments have more of a hierarchy within the company, particularly in more corporate environments. US companies are often more stratified. Some to the degree of oil and water. I found this the opposite. If we have a spectrum from Flat <-----> Hierarchical structure, then I've found the following: USA <----- Germany -----> Japan, where Japan is the most Hierarchical. > - You will likely get less vacation. Not only that, you will be discouraged, though rarely explicitly, from taking it. True you do get less vacation but it is not true that you will be discouraged. May be if you work at IBM or GE, etc. Not here in Silicon Valley, not in most modern corporations that were founded in last 20 years. Vacation is tremendously encouraged in all companies I've worked for and every other engineer I know. I think this might be true if you're in a <100 employee startup (< 4 year old company and VC backed). Spot on about politics and I prefer it that way. IMO politics, religion, activism, etc. is probably best to avoid at work.

suction 5y ago
May I add that inside the EU, the differences can be staggering? I worked in both German and French companies. The French ones were all much more hierarchically organised than the German ones. So much so that I started researching why, because from the outside, German culture seems to be more hierarchical than the French, but that's not true. In France, there is a cultural dogma for centralisation, exemplified by how they organise their country with Paris controlling everything. This way of thinking also is prevalent even in small companies: Every decisions flows top-down, there are simply no feedback channels bottom-up.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Sure, I narrowed it to Germany having dealt with a handful of German companies. I am sure there are exceptions within Germany as well. Generalization can become quite contentious in discussions, but there is some value in understanding larger cultural phenomena, however broad brushed that might be. Thanks for adding color.
jhallenworld 5y ago
Not really true at IBM- I mean of course you got to take vacation. Also, you couldn't carry over vacation time, so often half the office was out last two or three weeks of December to use it up. Also on vacation time: you can negotiate for more. I knew someone who negotiated for a 4 day work-week, but that was a special case (along the lines of "I don't need to work anymore, so if you really want me it's going to be for 4 days a week only").

uwuuwuuwu 5y ago

Note that what is considered "left of center" in America would likely be significantly right of center to a European.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Not really. Europe is very left WRT economic structures and acceptance of certain social norms (nudity, athiesm), but would be considered right to far right WRT identity politics. All the Europeans I know think North America is insane WRT political correctness, identity politics, cancel culture, etc... It's just different... Also keep in mind vast swaths of Europe weren't colonizers, were conquered many times themselves, haven't seen much immigration, etc...
- thundergolfer 5y ago
  More interesting I think than the opinions of “all the Europeans” you know on cancel culture would be the political status of abortion in Western Europe. The USA has a large number of people with far right abortion politics and they are succeeding at a federal level in getting their way. It would be interesting to see if Western Europe has any comparable level of social regressivism winning battles in court and parliament. I suspect Western Europe does not.
  - tticvs 5y ago
    You are aware that abortion is illegal in Germany right? It has been de facto "decriminalized" in the first trimester, since the government has declined to prosecute such cases, however a doctor even advertising that they perform abortions is grounds to lose their medical license. It is legal in other European countries, but I just want to point out that Europe is neither homogeneous nor universally "left" of the US
    - ebalit 5y ago
      This is the first time I read this and I'm very surprised that it is the case. Would you have a source I could read to learn more about this.

refurb 5y ago

Having worked in US and Europe this take is pretty anecdotal and more a reflection of Bay Area certain company culture. The US company I worked for encouraged vacation and offered almost the same amount as the European company I worked for (5 weeks). Nobody was on Adderall in the US and the Europeans were putting in just as many late nights as the Americans. I’d also argue that the Europeans often looked at the US politics as not “slightly left of center” but “fucking bonkers”.

lilsoso 5y ago
The only point I care to touch on is the Adderall usage. Europeans, I think, would be shocked by the prevalence. From the New York Times: "In the 1990s, an estimated 3 to 5 percent of school-age American children were believed to have A.D.H.D., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; by 2013, that figure was 11 percent." There's a stigma to these prescription drugs, so you co-workers will likely conceal the truth. And you won't be able to perceive they're on these substances. Americans have a more competitive work environment than Europeans. They're raised to succeed, as the stakes are higher (less of a safety net, student debt, housing prices, etc...). What's interesting, is that I suspect Adderall abuse is higher amongst those raised in upper middle class households. Adderall is common amongst my privileged friends, yet you would never know unless you were very close to them. In fact, they'll lie to others. The types from elite schools: Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley. The types in MD-PhD programs, FAANG companies, and "big law".
- watwut 5y ago
  > From the New York Times: "In the 1990s, an estimated 3 to 5 percent of school-age American children were believed to have A.D.H.D., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; by 2013, that figure was 11 percent." That is not addreal statistic, but adhd in kids statistic.
  - lilsoso 5y ago
    The statistic from the NYT is estimated and you're missing the overall point. What % of children are admitted to Stanford? A sliver. What % of Stanford undergraduates make it to a "big law" firm? A small percentage. The speculative point is that US men from UMC households who were admitted to elite schools and who subsequently went on to competitive jobs have higher Adderall abuse rates than you might expect. No, you can't find statistics on it. And to make the matter more difficult, they'll lie to your face about the subject. This conjecture isn't even controversial, this notion is echoed throughout the broader culture. For example, see the following article from the New Yorker -- a magazine that caters to the families of these types: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/04/27/brain-gain https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/04/27/brain-gain . The article begins with the sentence, "A young man I’ll call Alex recently graduated from Harvard."