12 ms·

As a fellow Polish coder, I find the name extremely amusing. I don't know why the accent should be a problem.

by selfhoster11 5y ago

stjohnswarts 5y ago
Because most of us will have to go on the hunt to find the keystrokes to get the symbol.
- jhgb 5y ago
  Have you tried the APL keyboard?
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  Right-Ctrl C ' if you have a compose key (built in on Linux, WinCompose[1] for Windows, no clue for Mac). [1] https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose
  - remram 5y ago
    That gives me a Ç edit: Looks like it's supposed to work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GtkComposeTable https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GtkComposeTable
    - pasquinelli 5y ago
      what do you get using comma?
      - remram 5y ago
        The same thing, ç edit: hold on, that's only in Firefox. Anywhere else, comma+c does ç and apostrophe+c does ć
    - Lammy 5y ago
      Are you in en_US? The sequence you mentioned should definitely work in that locale. Here’s a more authoritative link than the manually-updated wiki page: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11/-/blob/master/nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11/-/blob/master... If you’re not in en_US you can find other locales and their Compose sequences in the nls directory.
  - dubya 5y ago
    On Mac, hold down the "c" key and a little menu with accented versions (ç, ć, č) appears, with numbers to choose which one. The flip side is that holding down letters or numbers doesn't repeat them on a Mac.
    - toastal 5y ago
      The (Neo)Vim digraph is `C'`: Ctrl+k, Shift+c, '
    - boondaburrah 5y ago
      My old mac muscle memory is telling me option+e, c. I don't have one anymore to test though, but I used to use the mac layout on Linux for a while exactly for composing using alt.
      - waterhouse 5y ago
        Hmm, I get ´c when doing option-e c. I feel like it should work to combine the two, but ... Looks like that functionality only applies to the vowels (and not y): á´b´c´dé´f´g´hí´j´k´l´m´nó´p´q´r´s´tú´v´w´x´y´z.
    - jfk13 5y ago
      I'm not seeing that behavior; my letter/number keys simply repeat. But I'm sure I've seen it before. I guess there may be an option somewhere to enable/disable it, but offhand I can't seem to find it. Or maybe this has changed (back) in a recent OS update? I'm running 12.0beta on this machine.
      - redwall_hp 5y ago
        It's been around since Lion or Mountain Lion, IIRC. There's a toggle in keyboard settings to choose between repeating or hold-for-alternate behavior (like how iOS works). The substitution behavior is the default, but if you already had repeat mode on it may have carried forward. The old way was option+e and a vowel for an accute accent mark, but I don't think that works with consonants.
- 0xTJ 5y ago
  I highly recommend using a compose key to enter special characters. I think it's more common by default on Linux, but I use WinCompose. I've never entered "ć" in my life, but hitting ALT, apostrophe then c, it worked.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  Back in the day you could enter these with alt-... numpad keystrokes. Decimal ASCII representation maybe? Might still work in some situations?
  - emmelaich 5y ago
    Yep, still works. Also does four digits iirc. For extended unicode.
- redwall_hp 5y ago
  Mac and iOS: hold C down, push Ć.
- mattigames 5y ago
  Just store it in your brain as "cito" and google will do the rest, e.g. google "cito programing language" or "cito GitHub"
- enriquto 5y ago
  Most of who? Most people in the world are not native english speakers.
  - jeofken 5y ago
    In biology, it’s Latin. In computing, it’s English. Fellow ESLers, let’s just get over it.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      Not exactly. {, }, [, ], (, ) are not part of the English alphabet but they are widely used. Same thing for ->, =>, !=. But things like λ are not used at all. So the alphabet of computing is ASCII.
      - jeofken 5y ago
        > {, }, [, ], (, ) are not part of the English alphabet but they are widely used. Same thing for ->, =>, !=. But things like λ are not used at all. Yet your sentence, clearly written in English, contains all these characters.
        enriquto 5y ago
        English also contains many accented words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_terms_with_diacritical_marks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_terms_with_diacritical... You are supposed to be able to type them if you write in English. Also, if you are in polite company, it's alright to drop the occasional Greek word. So here we are: if you can fully write in English, you can use all these characters. Ascii-only is the modern equivalent of all-caps. Something archaic, still used by old people with hopelessly limited input devices.
- jagrsw 5y ago
  I took the liberty to read a couple of your previous HN threads, and from context there's a chance you're living in US and you are an English native speaker. Forgive me if the above is incorrect, but in case it is: The majority of your world's fellow humans, wishing to be comp developers, already spent months or years (combined) of their individual lives in order to learn English as non-native-speakers to do just that. Your "whining" (yes, it's intended to be somewhat impolite, but I don't think it's unreasonable given the above) that, in case Ć becomes the next-gen well-known programming tool, you'll have to spend maybe a couple of hours to update your keyboard mapping or learn some other way of quickly typping 'Ć' invokes 0 of my (and many others') empathy. Though many were helpful to suggest you how to do that quickly/correctly. I hope my words will be deemed as 'fair enough given the context' :)
ngcc_hk 5y ago
Ć push iOS keyboard C and it is there.
gostsamo 5y ago
Because my screen reader does not know how to read the symbol and reads gibberish?
- dhritzkiv 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, what does your screen reader emit? "Acute accented C"? And would the onus not be on the screen reader to not produce gibberish for a simple letter?
  - gostsamo 5y ago
    It has a default placeholder pronunciation for unknown symbols. Neither english or my native language have accents in their letters and creating a lookup table for all the unicode material out there might've been considered impractical or performance-hitting for the developers. Personally, I'm okay with that because symbols with long pronunciations create overhead when reading and a few of them make a text practically unintelligible.
    - dhritzkiv 5y ago
      Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
    - estebank 5y ago
      I try to be mindful of making my software as accessible as possible, but the following > creating a lookup table for all the unicode material out there might've been considered impractical or performance-hitting for the developers. just doesn't ring true to me in any way for current software. I understand that people can be using older software, which is why I strive to restrict myself to ASCII as much as possible for the widest possible support for my users, but my software also supports unicode identifiers, up to and including a whole unicode table to talk about confusables[1]. And not all TTS software "ignores" characters, which is why people advice against using 𝑓𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑦 unicode because it doesn't get read as text but instead each character is described individually. (This is also something that TTS software should support for their users' sake, but I digress.) To be clear, it is reasonable to be practical and cater to the software as it exists, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask for better software. [1]: this is thanks to the crate unic-udc containing this information: https://github.com/open-i18n/rust-unic https://github.com/open-i18n/rust-unic
nine_k 5y ago
Entering the name is not a problem. Searching for it very much will be.
- sm4rk0 5y ago
  Use cito for search. Just like "golang" vs "go".

As a fellow Polish coder, I find the name extremely amusing. I don't know why the accent should be a problem.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Because most of us will have to go on the hunt to find the keystrokes to get the symbol.

jhgb 5y ago
Have you tried the APL keyboard?
SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
Right-Ctrl C ' if you have a compose key (built in on Linux, WinCompose[1] for Windows, no clue for Mac). [1] https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose
- remram 5y ago
  That gives me a Ç edit: Looks like it's supposed to work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GtkComposeTable https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GtkComposeTable
  - pasquinelli 5y ago
    what do you get using comma?
    - remram 5y ago
      The same thing, ç edit: hold on, that's only in Firefox. Anywhere else, comma+c does ç and apostrophe+c does ć
  - Lammy 5y ago
    Are you in en_US? The sequence you mentioned should definitely work in that locale. Here’s a more authoritative link than the manually-updated wiki page: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11/-/blob/master/nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11/-/blob/master... If you’re not in en_US you can find other locales and their Compose sequences in the nls directory.
- dubya 5y ago
  On Mac, hold down the "c" key and a little menu with accented versions (ç, ć, č) appears, with numbers to choose which one. The flip side is that holding down letters or numbers doesn't repeat them on a Mac.
  - toastal 5y ago
    The (Neo)Vim digraph is `C'`: Ctrl+k, Shift+c, '
  - boondaburrah 5y ago
    My old mac muscle memory is telling me option+e, c. I don't have one anymore to test though, but I used to use the mac layout on Linux for a while exactly for composing using alt.
    - waterhouse 5y ago
      Hmm, I get ´c when doing option-e c. I feel like it should work to combine the two, but ... Looks like that functionality only applies to the vowels (and not y): á´b´c´dé´f´g´hí´j´k´l´m´nó´p´q´r´s´tú´v´w´x´y´z.
  - jfk13 5y ago
    I'm not seeing that behavior; my letter/number keys simply repeat. But I'm sure I've seen it before. I guess there may be an option somewhere to enable/disable it, but offhand I can't seem to find it. Or maybe this has changed (back) in a recent OS update? I'm running 12.0beta on this machine.
    - redwall_hp 5y ago
      It's been around since Lion or Mountain Lion, IIRC. There's a toggle in keyboard settings to choose between repeating or hold-for-alternate behavior (like how iOS works). The substitution behavior is the default, but if you already had repeat mode on it may have carried forward. The old way was option+e and a vowel for an accute accent mark, but I don't think that works with consonants.
0xTJ 5y ago
I highly recommend using a compose key to enter special characters. I think it's more common by default on Linux, but I use WinCompose. I've never entered "ć" in my life, but hitting ALT, apostrophe then c, it worked.
wyldfire 5y ago
Back in the day you could enter these with alt-... numpad keystrokes. Decimal ASCII representation maybe? Might still work in some situations?
- emmelaich 5y ago
  Yep, still works. Also does four digits iirc. For extended unicode.
redwall_hp 5y ago
Mac and iOS: hold C down, push Ć.
mattigames 5y ago
Just store it in your brain as "cito" and google will do the rest, e.g. google "cito programing language" or "cito GitHub"
enriquto 5y ago
Most of who? Most people in the world are not native english speakers.
- jeofken 5y ago
  In biology, it’s Latin. In computing, it’s English. Fellow ESLers, let’s just get over it.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Not exactly. {, }, [, ], (, ) are not part of the English alphabet but they are widely used. Same thing for ->, =>, !=. But things like λ are not used at all. So the alphabet of computing is ASCII.
    - jeofken 5y ago
      > {, }, [, ], (, ) are not part of the English alphabet but they are widely used. Same thing for ->, =>, !=. But things like λ are not used at all. Yet your sentence, clearly written in English, contains all these characters.
      - enriquto 5y ago
        English also contains many accented words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_terms_with_diacritical_marks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_terms_with_diacritical... You are supposed to be able to type them if you write in English. Also, if you are in polite company, it's alright to drop the occasional Greek word. So here we are: if you can fully write in English, you can use all these characters. Ascii-only is the modern equivalent of all-caps. Something archaic, still used by old people with hopelessly limited input devices.
jagrsw 5y ago
I took the liberty to read a couple of your previous HN threads, and from context there's a chance you're living in US and you are an English native speaker. Forgive me if the above is incorrect, but in case it is: The majority of your world's fellow humans, wishing to be comp developers, already spent months or years (combined) of their individual lives in order to learn English as non-native-speakers to do just that. Your "whining" (yes, it's intended to be somewhat impolite, but I don't think it's unreasonable given the above) that, in case Ć becomes the next-gen well-known programming tool, you'll have to spend maybe a couple of hours to update your keyboard mapping or learn some other way of quickly typping 'Ć' invokes 0 of my (and many others') empathy. Though many were helpful to suggest you how to do that quickly/correctly. I hope my words will be deemed as 'fair enough given the context' :)

ngcc_hk 5y ago

Ć push iOS keyboard C and it is there.

gostsamo 5y ago

Because my screen reader does not know how to read the symbol and reads gibberish?

dhritzkiv 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what does your screen reader emit? "Acute accented C"? And would the onus not be on the screen reader to not produce gibberish for a simple letter?
- gostsamo 5y ago
  It has a default placeholder pronunciation for unknown symbols. Neither english or my native language have accents in their letters and creating a lookup table for all the unicode material out there might've been considered impractical or performance-hitting for the developers. Personally, I'm okay with that because symbols with long pronunciations create overhead when reading and a few of them make a text practically unintelligible.
  - dhritzkiv 5y ago
    Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
  - estebank 5y ago
    I try to be mindful of making my software as accessible as possible, but the following > creating a lookup table for all the unicode material out there might've been considered impractical or performance-hitting for the developers. just doesn't ring true to me in any way for current software. I understand that people can be using older software, which is why I strive to restrict myself to ASCII as much as possible for the widest possible support for my users, but my software also supports unicode identifiers, up to and including a whole unicode table to talk about confusables[1]. And not all TTS software "ignores" characters, which is why people advice against using 𝑓𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑦 unicode because it doesn't get read as text but instead each character is described individually. (This is also something that TTS software should support for their users' sake, but I digress.) To be clear, it is reasonable to be practical and cater to the software as it exists, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask for better software. [1]: this is thanks to the crate unic-udc containing this information: https://github.com/open-i18n/rust-unic https://github.com/open-i18n/rust-unic

nine_k 5y ago

Entering the name is not a problem. Searching for it very much will be.

sm4rk0 5y ago
Use cito for search. Just like "golang" vs "go".