3 ms·

I think you’re making a lot of implicit assumptions here. For example, in this discussion there is no guarantee that the average current mortgage is the same as

I think you’re making a lot of implicit assumptions here. For example, in this discussion there is no guarantee that the average current mortgage is the same as the mortgage held by the current landlord charging the prevailing rent. In my experience it’s pretty typical for rented houses to not be recently purchased. If you have evidence that it’s the norm for landlords to rent below their operating costs, by all means provide it. But from what you’ve provided so far, I am unconvinced.

pandaman 5y ago
I gave you an example of my house, have not I? If I were interested in renting it I would not be "underwater" and any non-negative rent would be better for me than selling/renovating/keeping it off market. Note that I am not making a statement about every house, to rebut your assertion that all renters pay no less than the landlord's taxes + mortgage + insurance it's enough to show some (even one) counter example and not to prove that all or, even, typical renter does not do so. There are certainly rental properties that make profit on rent but I have few friends who rent their houses at less than their own expenses because they just cannot find tenants willing to pay more. Seeing how in general rents had been lower than mortgage for quite a while it's sane to assume that I am not an owner of a unique house with a selected group of friends who are in this completely extreme situation.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I do not find your house to be persuasive for larger trends, no. I responded to the other bit already. > Note that I am not making a statement about every house, to rebut your assertion that all renters pay no less than the landlord's taxes + mortgage + insurance it's enough to show some (even one) counter example and not to prove that all or, even, typical renter does not do so. Don’t be a pedant, we were clearly talking about the typical renter.
  - pandaman 5y ago
    It was not clear to me, I thought you made a general assertion about the economics of real estate which is false on its face. I am not equipped to talk about typical renters since I don't have data. All I can find is the Census statistics showing that average national rent is less than mortgage: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSG860219 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSG860219

pandaman 5y ago

I gave you an example of my house, have not I? If I were interested in renting it I would not be "underwater" and any non-negative rent would be better for me than selling/renovating/keeping it off market. Note that I am not making a statement about every house, to rebut your assertion that all renters pay no less than the landlord's taxes + mortgage + insurance it's enough to show some (even one) counter example and not to prove that all or, even, typical renter does not do so. There are certainly rental properties that make profit on rent but I have few friends who rent their houses at less than their own expenses because they just cannot find tenants willing to pay more. Seeing how in general rents had been lower than mortgage for quite a while it's sane to assume that I am not an owner of a unique house with a selected group of friends who are in this completely extreme situation.

ashtonkem 5y ago
I do not find your house to be persuasive for larger trends, no. I responded to the other bit already. > Note that I am not making a statement about every house, to rebut your assertion that all renters pay no less than the landlord's taxes + mortgage + insurance it's enough to show some (even one) counter example and not to prove that all or, even, typical renter does not do so. Don’t be a pedant, we were clearly talking about the typical renter.
- pandaman 5y ago
  It was not clear to me, I thought you made a general assertion about the economics of real estate which is false on its face. I am not equipped to talk about typical renters since I don't have data. All I can find is the Census statistics showing that average national rent is less than mortgage: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSG860219 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSG860219