8 ms·

I think you're overestimating the resiliency of cellular networks. After the Katrina hurricane, the FCC mandated that cell sites have at least 8 hours of backu

I think you're overestimating the resiliency of cellular networks. After the Katrina hurricane, the FCC mandated that cell sites have at least 8 hours of backup power (which isn't a lot when power can be out for days or weeks), but the industry sued and got the rule replaced with 'self-regulation', with the predictable result: https://www.vice.com/en/article/dyv9j7/how-big-telecom-killed-rules-that-would-have-prevented-hurricane-ida-outages https://www.vice.com/en/article/dyv9j7/how-big-telecom-kille... According to the latest report by the FCC, about 28.1 percent of the cell sites in the area impacted by Ida are offline, leaving hundreds of thousands of customers without service. Another 354,699 residents in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama remain without landline phone, cable, or broadband service. https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/08/31/cell-service-status-ida-terrebonne-assumption-parishes/5662235001/ https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/08/31/cell-ser... The FCC report shows that as of 11 a.m. Monday, 52% of 2,759 cellular sites across 31 Louisiana parishes were offline as a result of Hurricane Ida. The majority of the downed towers — nearly 65% — were offline due to a lack of power, a problem that could persist for weeks in some parts of the state. In some cases, cell sites are down due to multiple issues, such as power outages, damage to the network or damage to the site itself. CoWs can help in a small disaster or providing service at a shelter, but when thousands of cell sites are offline, there's still going to be a lot of people cut off from communication.

Nextgrid 5y ago
Cellular networks are indeed vulnerable, but he also mentioned satellite phones and BGAN terminals.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  Sure, but $600 sat phones with $100/month (for 60 minutes) plans and $5000 high speed satellite terminals are still out of reach of many people -- the people that can least afford to flee to safety after a disaster. So hams still have a role in coordinating local communication to help communications get outside of the disaster zone.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    > are still out of reach of many people Is ham radio any better on this front? Equipment is bulky and expensive, often requires a large antenna which might be problematic in apartments, requires specific skill (a satellite phone usually "just works") and requires a license before you can legally transmit (granted, in an emergency nobody cares, but I don't know many people who would be happy to spend money on a setup that they wouldn't even be legally allowed to use).
    - sliken 5y ago
      Sure, hand held radios start at $30 and at $75-$100 can be pretty nice. State wide repeater networks are pretty common, there's pretty nice ones in Colorado and California that I've used, I'm sure there's many others. Sure an external antenna $30-$200 can really help if you are in a car, house, or even an apartment if you have a patio. So sure you can blow many $1000s on it, but depending on the hardware and demands you can talk to large repeater network for $60 ish on 2M, and with a bit more skill and testing/certification (A general license) talk to people world wide for a few $100. Here's a quad band radio great for digital modes like js8call to allow keyboard to keyboard chat over long distances for $80: https://qrp-labs.com/qdx.html https://qrp-labs.com/qdx.html Here's a nice programmable 2M radio for $80: https://www.radioddity.com/products/tyt-uv8000e-dual-band-two-way-radio-walkie-talkie-3600mah-battery-car-charger-2-antennas-programming-cable https://www.radioddity.com/products/tyt-uv8000e-dual-band-tw...
    - Johnny555 5y ago
      The point of ham radio in disasters is not for everyone to have a ham radio (that sounds like a disaster itself), but to have hams coordinate and forward communications. So they could, for example, sit at a community shelter and forward welfare messages to someplace that does have a sat phone (or long distance HF link) to send messages out of the area. Though ham radios are no longer bulky nor expensive - I can hit a repeater 10 miles away from a handheld about as big as half a deck of cards with a 12" antenna.
    - azov 5y ago
      You can talk to your local repeater on a $30 radio that fits in a pocket (and the license is easy to get and super-cheap, like, $15 or so).
matt9j 5y ago
An important piece of modern (4G/5G) cell network design is that cells can have overlapping coverage to provide extra capacity in an area. The top level statistic that 52% of sites were down does not necessarily mean that 52% of the area was out of coverage at that time. It would be very expensive to heavily reinforce every small cell in every neighborhood for a large scale disaster, but would make sense to reinforce enough macro sites with wide area coverage to maintain low bandwidth emergency communications (voice+text) across the entire region.

Nextgrid 5y ago

Cellular networks are indeed vulnerable, but he also mentioned satellite phones and BGAN terminals.

Johnny555 5y ago
Sure, but $600 sat phones with $100/month (for 60 minutes) plans and $5000 high speed satellite terminals are still out of reach of many people -- the people that can least afford to flee to safety after a disaster. So hams still have a role in coordinating local communication to help communications get outside of the disaster zone.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > are still out of reach of many people Is ham radio any better on this front? Equipment is bulky and expensive, often requires a large antenna which might be problematic in apartments, requires specific skill (a satellite phone usually "just works") and requires a license before you can legally transmit (granted, in an emergency nobody cares, but I don't know many people who would be happy to spend money on a setup that they wouldn't even be legally allowed to use).
  - sliken 5y ago
    Sure, hand held radios start at $30 and at $75-$100 can be pretty nice. State wide repeater networks are pretty common, there's pretty nice ones in Colorado and California that I've used, I'm sure there's many others. Sure an external antenna $30-$200 can really help if you are in a car, house, or even an apartment if you have a patio. So sure you can blow many $1000s on it, but depending on the hardware and demands you can talk to large repeater network for $60 ish on 2M, and with a bit more skill and testing/certification (A general license) talk to people world wide for a few $100. Here's a quad band radio great for digital modes like js8call to allow keyboard to keyboard chat over long distances for $80: https://qrp-labs.com/qdx.html https://qrp-labs.com/qdx.html Here's a nice programmable 2M radio for $80: https://www.radioddity.com/products/tyt-uv8000e-dual-band-two-way-radio-walkie-talkie-3600mah-battery-car-charger-2-antennas-programming-cable https://www.radioddity.com/products/tyt-uv8000e-dual-band-tw...
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    The point of ham radio in disasters is not for everyone to have a ham radio (that sounds like a disaster itself), but to have hams coordinate and forward communications. So they could, for example, sit at a community shelter and forward welfare messages to someplace that does have a sat phone (or long distance HF link) to send messages out of the area. Though ham radios are no longer bulky nor expensive - I can hit a repeater 10 miles away from a handheld about as big as half a deck of cards with a 12" antenna.
  - azov 5y ago
    You can talk to your local repeater on a $30 radio that fits in a pocket (and the license is easy to get and super-cheap, like, $15 or so).

matt9j 5y ago

An important piece of modern (4G/5G) cell network design is that cells can have overlapping coverage to provide extra capacity in an area. The top level statistic that 52% of sites were down does not necessarily mean that 52% of the area was out of coverage at that time. It would be very expensive to heavily reinforce every small cell in every neighborhood for a large scale disaster, but would make sense to reinforce enough macro sites with wide area coverage to maintain low bandwidth emergency communications (voice+text) across the entire region.