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I have never understood the whole "tax the rich" idea and I am not rich, don't own a house or car or stocks or anything expensive. When and how will the taxes

I have never understood the whole "tax the rich" idea and I am not rich, don't own a house or car or stocks or anything expensive. When and how will the taxes help you and me? The money just ends up going to a black hole for the government to spent inefficiently. And if you are in the US, the money gets spent on funding the military industrial complex for bombing more countries, regime changes, intelligence agencies, sent to other countries for random gibberish studies and hiring more admin or useless jobs. I would recommend listening to the first few minutes of this "Walmart vs. The Morons" video to understand how inefficient the government really is: https://youtu.be/oKFdAOKq4Lk https://youtu.be/oKFdAOKq4Lk

debdut 5y ago
wonderful video! learnt something today :)
yesenadam 5y ago
(I'm not in the US, and agree that that's a disgraceful list.) Inefficient compared to what? What is your proposed alternative? > When and how will the taxes help you and me? Well.. for example, you use roads I assume.
- SamPatt 5y ago
  The vast majority of roads are managed at the state and local level. The overall expenditure for roads at the federal level is a very small portion of the budget.
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    > managed at the state and local level Paid for with money raised from ... tax
    - SamPatt 5y ago
      This article is about international tax agreements which apply at the national level.
      - lm28469 5y ago
        Do you know how big most countries in the EU are ? They're either smaller or not much bigger than the average state in the US. What would you say if your local big companies / rich people didn't pay tax in your state but managed to pay in the neighbouring state ? That's exactly what's happening in Europe
- busymom0 5y ago
  Here's an example: 13 Baltimore City High Schools, Zero Students Proficient in Math https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_city_high_schools_zero_students/ https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_c... https://archive.ph/VfciU https://archive.ph/VfciU http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-census-schools-20130521_1_school-system-per-pupil-spending-districts http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-ce... https://archive.ph/cqIZd https://archive.ph/cqIZd Just so everyone is aware Baltimore is 2nd in per pupil spending. This is not because the schools dont get enough money. In fact its just about as far away from that as you can get. If despite getting the 2nd more funded, your students still can't do high school math, then the problem isn't about money or racism, it's probably about corruption, gangs, fatherlessness, teacher unions and lack of school choice. Tax payer money literally just disappears.
adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
Here's a short list of things tax money funds: Roads Schools Healthcare (in civilized countries) Making sure companies selling medicine aren't killing people Making sure companies don't dump toxic waste into rivers and lakes Note that comparing Walmart vs the government is especially funny since most of Warlmart's expansion comes from the fact that it under-pays it's workers so much that the federal government has to support them since they aren't able to afford housing and food. It's also really funny that he brings up Fanny Mae as an argument against government efficiency since they are a private company that screwed up so badly they basically destroyed the economy. It's also really funny that he brings up healthcare since Medicare and Medicaid both run several times more efficiently than privately run healthcare.
- ericmay 5y ago
  > Healthcare (in civilized countries) When you say things like this, you just push back the goal of national healthcare in America. Stop. I want national healthcare and the only way to get it involves not pissing people off by calling them uncivilized.
  - Talanes 5y ago
    But pissing people off by jumping in to police their speech is better?
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Yes? Imagine if you had a goal and I just showed up and made fun of people who you need to convince of your goal and get their support. That wouldn’t make you mad as I undermined you?
      - Talanes 5y ago
        You've completely reversed which party is inserting themselves into the existing conversation though, which gives it an entirely different context. And honestly, there is no perfect band-aid for how to treat views that you find honestly stupid. Sure, some people won't listen if you're out there calling them stupid, but some people won't listen unless you do. People are messsy, complicated, and different.
Agathos 5y ago
> When and how will the taxes help you and me? In the US? On our 65th birthdays. Military spending is big, but Medicare is bigger.
jpmoral 5y ago
In Australia, I like: - parks - museums - libraries - free primary and secondary education - subsidised tertiary/vocational education - a (relative of course) functioning public transport system - healthcare - worker protections - other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting Sure, government is inefficient. All large orgs are. But are you telling me for-profit corporations are going to create a society with all these things for everyone?
- simondotau 5y ago
  Generally Government is dramatically more efficient than a comparable private business—the difference is that Government failings tend to be publicly available information, while a corporation can blow thirty million dollars on ineffective marketing and unnecessary consultants and you'll never know.
  - ridiculous_leke 5y ago
    That's probably only true for the developed countries. In the remaining ones, Government monopoly over anything is a path towards corruption and sub-standard work.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Corporations are way more efficient than governments in most areas. We know this since there are simply not a single government in the world that has implemented efficient versions of many of the things that private corporations easily do efficiently. The services government do is pretty much the same everywhere, roads, school, healthcare, police, military etc. But you don't see them run food distribution, grocery stores etc even though food certainly would be important enough for governments to do, its just that governments aren't good at doing it and many of the worst famines humanity has experiences are due to governments trying to control food production and distribution.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      I didn't mean to imply that Government is a good fit for every particular sector, only that where there's a good fit, Government tends to be more efficient. Healthcare is where this distinction is extremely stark, but it applies to pretty much all universally subscribed services.
mupuff1234 5y ago
Even if tax money would all go into a black hole - you would still get a slightly more equal society just by having smaller wealth gaps.
- bequanna 5y ago
  But maybe far less/slower progress. If you take capital away from people who are excellent capital allocators and give it to consumers we will just end up with more candy crush in app purchases.
- busymom0 5y ago
  Multiple lifetime politician members of the US Congress and Senate are multi-millionaires and have stocks in the very companies they are supposed to regulate. Thinking these people somehow care about wealth inequality or the poor people or will allow anything to change their own wealth is asinine. Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress: https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate/congress https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate/congress Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Senate: https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate
- refurb 5y ago
  Making everyone a bit poorer is better because the wealth gap is lower?
  - mupuff1234 5y ago
    I'm mostly talking about progressive taxes aimed at the 1%.
- marto1 5y ago
  You say it like it's a worse option. I'd argue it is actually better to burn money since then government won't have so much money which will make it an unimportant target for big corp contractors. And it is currently and there is vast amounts of corruption going on because of it. Just think about the kind of profits corps that are on the CIA's short list get.
lm28469 5y ago
> "Walmart vs. The Morons" The US doesn't have the same history, culture, institutions, structures and views on what society is as Europe. For having lived in the US and in several EU countries I can tell you it's extremely obvious to see where the money is going
fcanela 5y ago
I am really surprised by the HN community. I wasn't expecting people to downvote an user who politely expressed his point of view just because theirs is the opposite.
- vixen99 5y ago
  You shouldn't be surprised. There've been plenty of examples of people stating facts germane to the topic and nevertheless downvoted because some folk don't like that fact being referenced. Be nice if they had to offer a reason for their downvote. Quite a lot of bigotry around.

debdut 5y ago

wonderful video! learnt something today :)

yesenadam 5y ago

(I'm not in the US, and agree that that's a disgraceful list.) Inefficient compared to what? What is your proposed alternative? > When and how will the taxes help you and me? Well.. for example, you use roads I assume.

SamPatt 5y ago
The vast majority of roads are managed at the state and local level. The overall expenditure for roads at the federal level is a very small portion of the budget.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  > managed at the state and local level Paid for with money raised from ... tax
  - SamPatt 5y ago
    This article is about international tax agreements which apply at the national level.
    - lm28469 5y ago
      Do you know how big most countries in the EU are ? They're either smaller or not much bigger than the average state in the US. What would you say if your local big companies / rich people didn't pay tax in your state but managed to pay in the neighbouring state ? That's exactly what's happening in Europe
busymom0 5y ago
Here's an example: 13 Baltimore City High Schools, Zero Students Proficient in Math https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_city_high_schools_zero_students/ https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_c... https://archive.ph/VfciU https://archive.ph/VfciU http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-census-schools-20130521_1_school-system-per-pupil-spending-districts http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-ce... https://archive.ph/cqIZd https://archive.ph/cqIZd Just so everyone is aware Baltimore is 2nd in per pupil spending. This is not because the schools dont get enough money. In fact its just about as far away from that as you can get. If despite getting the 2nd more funded, your students still can't do high school math, then the problem isn't about money or racism, it's probably about corruption, gangs, fatherlessness, teacher unions and lack of school choice. Tax payer money literally just disappears.

adgjlsfhk1 5y ago

Here's a short list of things tax money funds: Roads Schools Healthcare (in civilized countries) Making sure companies selling medicine aren't killing people Making sure companies don't dump toxic waste into rivers and lakes Note that comparing Walmart vs the government is especially funny since most of Warlmart's expansion comes from the fact that it under-pays it's workers so much that the federal government has to support them since they aren't able to afford housing and food. It's also really funny that he brings up Fanny Mae as an argument against government efficiency since they are a private company that screwed up so badly they basically destroyed the economy. It's also really funny that he brings up healthcare since Medicare and Medicaid both run several times more efficiently than privately run healthcare.

ericmay 5y ago
> Healthcare (in civilized countries) When you say things like this, you just push back the goal of national healthcare in America. Stop. I want national healthcare and the only way to get it involves not pissing people off by calling them uncivilized.
- Talanes 5y ago
  But pissing people off by jumping in to police their speech is better?
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Yes? Imagine if you had a goal and I just showed up and made fun of people who you need to convince of your goal and get their support. That wouldn’t make you mad as I undermined you?
    - Talanes 5y ago
      You've completely reversed which party is inserting themselves into the existing conversation though, which gives it an entirely different context. And honestly, there is no perfect band-aid for how to treat views that you find honestly stupid. Sure, some people won't listen if you're out there calling them stupid, but some people won't listen unless you do. People are messsy, complicated, and different.

Agathos 5y ago

> When and how will the taxes help you and me? In the US? On our 65th birthdays. Military spending is big, but Medicare is bigger.

jpmoral 5y ago

In Australia, I like: - parks - museums - libraries - free primary and secondary education - subsidised tertiary/vocational education - a (relative of course) functioning public transport system - healthcare - worker protections - other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting Sure, government is inefficient. All large orgs are. But are you telling me for-profit corporations are going to create a society with all these things for everyone?

simondotau 5y ago
Generally Government is dramatically more efficient than a comparable private business—the difference is that Government failings tend to be publicly available information, while a corporation can blow thirty million dollars on ineffective marketing and unnecessary consultants and you'll never know.
- ridiculous_leke 5y ago
  That's probably only true for the developed countries. In the remaining ones, Government monopoly over anything is a path towards corruption and sub-standard work.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Corporations are way more efficient than governments in most areas. We know this since there are simply not a single government in the world that has implemented efficient versions of many of the things that private corporations easily do efficiently. The services government do is pretty much the same everywhere, roads, school, healthcare, police, military etc. But you don't see them run food distribution, grocery stores etc even though food certainly would be important enough for governments to do, its just that governments aren't good at doing it and many of the worst famines humanity has experiences are due to governments trying to control food production and distribution.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    I didn't mean to imply that Government is a good fit for every particular sector, only that where there's a good fit, Government tends to be more efficient. Healthcare is where this distinction is extremely stark, but it applies to pretty much all universally subscribed services.

mupuff1234 5y ago

Even if tax money would all go into a black hole - you would still get a slightly more equal society just by having smaller wealth gaps.

bequanna 5y ago
But maybe far less/slower progress. If you take capital away from people who are excellent capital allocators and give it to consumers we will just end up with more candy crush in app purchases.
busymom0 5y ago
Multiple lifetime politician members of the US Congress and Senate are multi-millionaires and have stocks in the very companies they are supposed to regulate. Thinking these people somehow care about wealth inequality or the poor people or will allow anything to change their own wealth is asinine. Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress: https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate/congress https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate/congress Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Senate: https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate
refurb 5y ago
Making everyone a bit poorer is better because the wealth gap is lower?
- mupuff1234 5y ago
  I'm mostly talking about progressive taxes aimed at the 1%.
marto1 5y ago
You say it like it's a worse option. I'd argue it is actually better to burn money since then government won't have so much money which will make it an unimportant target for big corp contractors. And it is currently and there is vast amounts of corruption going on because of it. Just think about the kind of profits corps that are on the CIA's short list get.

lm28469 5y ago

> "Walmart vs. The Morons" The US doesn't have the same history, culture, institutions, structures and views on what society is as Europe. For having lived in the US and in several EU countries I can tell you it's extremely obvious to see where the money is going

fcanela 5y ago

I am really surprised by the HN community. I wasn't expecting people to downvote an user who politely expressed his point of view just because theirs is the opposite.

vixen99 5y ago
You shouldn't be surprised. There've been plenty of examples of people stating facts germane to the topic and nevertheless downvoted because some folk don't like that fact being referenced. Be nice if they had to offer a reason for their downvote. Quite a lot of bigotry around.