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How about we stick to "a company can do everything it wants as long as it is legal and people are free to go work at whichever company they want"? Why is that c

How about we stick to "a company can do everything it wants as long as it is legal and people are free to go work at whichever company they want"? Why is that controversial? If you want to effect social change become a politician, do not try to turn your work place into a political party that has to react to every social fashion.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
The problem with the argument that this is making a workplace a political party is what the fuck are you supposed to do if you’re transitioning at work? Now you’re fucking political, and all you want is for your boss to call you she/her and your health insurance to cover your hormones.
- poszlem 5y ago
  I don't think we should optimise workplaces for the smallest possible edge cases. If you joined a bigoted company as a queer person and transitioned then you have to change your job, the same way if you join NPR and suddenly realise after spending too much time online that you are in fact right wing. Work is a place where people go to earn money to do stuff they want after. It's not a place to get validation.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? Dismissing the edge cases of marginalized people is kind of like… of course they’re edge cases. Marginalized people are edge cases by definition.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      > That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? It is simple, you transition, you tell people you want to go by the other name now. If people say it wrong you remind them but don't get angry. If they harass it for it there are laws against harassment, bringing up harassment isn't political. You can discuss the medical benefits with your manager or HR, but don't have to try to make a political campaign about it. If people makes a fuzz over those things then they are political and you can report them to whoever is in charge that they are bringing politics to work and causing problems. If they truly are against politics at work they will take your side and tell those people to stop.
      - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        What do you do if your peer reports you as political because asking people to go by your new name is a political demand? I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political, or trying to use a bathroom you think matches your gender.
        Jensson 5y ago
        If you legally changed your name then it isn't an political act. > I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political That is just your assumption here. Why are you assuming that? It is almost as if you assume "apolitical" means "conservative". That isn't true, even if the left tries to tell you that all "apolitical" people are really closet conservatives that isn't really the case.
        SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        I’m assuming that because there are laws in several places in the country about whether or not trans people can use certain bathrooms, so I’m assuming it’s a political thing.
        Jensson 5y ago
        Yeah, so in those parts you will use the bathrooms you are allowed to use. I'm not sure what is unclear here?
        SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        I think my assumptions are different than you. I’ve met people, co workers, who have told me that a trans person asking to be described as a new name is political, and forcing the co worker to call them by a new name is forcing politics in the workplace. This is my understanding of what an apolitical workplace means. Am I wrong? I’ve generally avoided workplaces that claim to be apolitical explicitly because the people I know who claim to be apolitical actually claim that they’d never respect a trans persons new name, because that’s bringing politics into the workplace.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Lets say that coinbase said "We are fully political at work, we expect all of you to have conservative views!". Would that make you happier than their current apolitical stance?
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender?
    - Jensson 5y ago
      > What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender? You just do it? In an apolitical workspace that isn't a political act, what you do in your free time is up to you. And if you change your legal name people should update how they call you. Nothing of that is political. If people make a fuzz they are dragging politics in the workspace and should be reprimanded. > I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. It isn't a strawman, I am just explaining how politics at work wouldn't solve your problem. However an apolitical workspace actually would solve your problem since it bars conservative politics as well.
      - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        That’s what I don’t understand, because my understanding is that being conservative or progressive when it comes to trans people is no middle ground. Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice. There are laws passed explicitly around their bathrooms for example.
        Jensson 5y ago
        > Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice No, it is just a kind gesture. It is like people not telling an overweight person they are fat, it is the normal thing to do. And if you go around calling people fat then in any healthy workplace they will call you in for a talk and tell you to stop being so rude. The problem here is that you make this about politics and not about just common decency. If it is about politics then it makes sense for conservatives to reject your wish, you wont change them from being conservatives. But if you make it about common decency instead then they almost surely comply since most people are nice. Maybe not the first time you ask but after a few times almost everyone will, because they will see themselves as assholes if they don't.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

The problem with the argument that this is making a workplace a political party is what the fuck are you supposed to do if you’re transitioning at work? Now you’re fucking political, and all you want is for your boss to call you she/her and your health insurance to cover your hormones.

poszlem 5y ago
I don't think we should optimise workplaces for the smallest possible edge cases. If you joined a bigoted company as a queer person and transitioned then you have to change your job, the same way if you join NPR and suddenly realise after spending too much time online that you are in fact right wing. Work is a place where people go to earn money to do stuff they want after. It's not a place to get validation.
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? Dismissing the edge cases of marginalized people is kind of like… of course they’re edge cases. Marginalized people are edge cases by definition.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? It is simple, you transition, you tell people you want to go by the other name now. If people say it wrong you remind them but don't get angry. If they harass it for it there are laws against harassment, bringing up harassment isn't political. You can discuss the medical benefits with your manager or HR, but don't have to try to make a political campaign about it. If people makes a fuzz over those things then they are political and you can report them to whoever is in charge that they are bringing politics to work and causing problems. If they truly are against politics at work they will take your side and tell those people to stop.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      What do you do if your peer reports you as political because asking people to go by your new name is a political demand? I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political, or trying to use a bathroom you think matches your gender.
      - Jensson 5y ago
        If you legally changed your name then it isn't an political act. > I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political That is just your assumption here. Why are you assuming that? It is almost as if you assume "apolitical" means "conservative". That isn't true, even if the left tries to tell you that all "apolitical" people are really closet conservatives that isn't really the case.
        SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        I’m assuming that because there are laws in several places in the country about whether or not trans people can use certain bathrooms, so I’m assuming it’s a political thing.
        Jensson 5y ago
        Yeah, so in those parts you will use the bathrooms you are allowed to use. I'm not sure what is unclear here?
        SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        I think my assumptions are different than you. I’ve met people, co workers, who have told me that a trans person asking to be described as a new name is political, and forcing the co worker to call them by a new name is forcing politics in the workplace. This is my understanding of what an apolitical workplace means. Am I wrong? I’ve generally avoided workplaces that claim to be apolitical explicitly because the people I know who claim to be apolitical actually claim that they’d never respect a trans persons new name, because that’s bringing politics into the workplace.
Jensson 5y ago
Lets say that coinbase said "We are fully political at work, we expect all of you to have conservative views!". Would that make you happier than their current apolitical stance?
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender?
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender? You just do it? In an apolitical workspace that isn't a political act, what you do in your free time is up to you. And if you change your legal name people should update how they call you. Nothing of that is political. If people make a fuzz they are dragging politics in the workspace and should be reprimanded. > I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. It isn't a strawman, I am just explaining how politics at work wouldn't solve your problem. However an apolitical workspace actually would solve your problem since it bars conservative politics as well.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      That’s what I don’t understand, because my understanding is that being conservative or progressive when it comes to trans people is no middle ground. Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice. There are laws passed explicitly around their bathrooms for example.
      - Jensson 5y ago
        > Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice No, it is just a kind gesture. It is like people not telling an overweight person they are fat, it is the normal thing to do. And if you go around calling people fat then in any healthy workplace they will call you in for a talk and tell you to stop being so rude. The problem here is that you make this about politics and not about just common decency. If it is about politics then it makes sense for conservatives to reject your wish, you wont change them from being conservatives. But if you make it about common decency instead then they almost surely comply since most people are nice. Maybe not the first time you ask but after a few times almost everyone will, because they will see themselves as assholes if they don't.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]