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but that's thing...what is "social activism" here? I don't think having a single tweet or post from your company's account saying "happy Pride month, we love ou

but that's thing...what is "social activism" here? I don't think having a single tweet or post from your company's account saying "happy Pride month, we love our LGBTQ+ Coinbasers" is activism really....it's just like, a nice thing to do. No one is saying Coinbase or any company should pay their employees to go make phone calls for Bernie Sanders' campaign on the clock. It seems like people are inventing some kind of strawman of "paid activism" that no one is asking for.

poszlem 5y ago
How about we stick to "a company can do everything it wants as long as it is legal and people are free to go work at whichever company they want"? Why is that controversial? If you want to effect social change become a politician, do not try to turn your work place into a political party that has to react to every social fashion.
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  The problem with the argument that this is making a workplace a political party is what the fuck are you supposed to do if you’re transitioning at work? Now you’re fucking political, and all you want is for your boss to call you she/her and your health insurance to cover your hormones.
  - poszlem 5y ago
    I don't think we should optimise workplaces for the smallest possible edge cases. If you joined a bigoted company as a queer person and transitioned then you have to change your job, the same way if you join NPR and suddenly realise after spending too much time online that you are in fact right wing. Work is a place where people go to earn money to do stuff they want after. It's not a place to get validation.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? Dismissing the edge cases of marginalized people is kind of like… of course they’re edge cases. Marginalized people are edge cases by definition.
      - Jensson 5y ago
        > That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? It is simple, you transition, you tell people you want to go by the other name now. If people say it wrong you remind them but don't get angry. If they harass it for it there are laws against harassment, bringing up harassment isn't political. You can discuss the medical benefits with your manager or HR, but don't have to try to make a political campaign about it. If people makes a fuzz over those things then they are political and you can report them to whoever is in charge that they are bringing politics to work and causing problems. If they truly are against politics at work they will take your side and tell those people to stop.
        SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        What do you do if your peer reports you as political because asking people to go by your new name is a political demand? I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political, or trying to use a bathroom you think matches your gender.
        Jensson 5y ago
        If you legally changed your name then it isn't an political act. > I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political That is just your assumption here. Why are you assuming that? It is almost as if you assume "apolitical" means "conservative". That isn't true, even if the left tries to tell you that all "apolitical" people are really closet conservatives that isn't really the case.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Lets say that coinbase said "We are fully political at work, we expect all of you to have conservative views!". Would that make you happier than their current apolitical stance?
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender?
      - Jensson 5y ago
        > What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender? You just do it? In an apolitical workspace that isn't a political act, what you do in your free time is up to you. And if you change your legal name people should update how they call you. Nothing of that is political. If people make a fuzz they are dragging politics in the workspace and should be reprimanded. > I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. It isn't a strawman, I am just explaining how politics at work wouldn't solve your problem. However an apolitical workspace actually would solve your problem since it bars conservative politics as well.
        SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        That’s what I don’t understand, because my understanding is that being conservative or progressive when it comes to trans people is no middle ground. Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice. There are laws passed explicitly around their bathrooms for example.
        Jensson 5y ago
        > Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice No, it is just a kind gesture. It is like people not telling an overweight person they are fat, it is the normal thing to do. And if you go around calling people fat then in any healthy workplace they will call you in for a talk and tell you to stop being so rude. The problem here is that you make this about politics and not about just common decency. If it is about politics then it makes sense for conservatives to reject your wish, you wont change them from being conservatives. But if you make it about common decency instead then they almost surely comply since most people are nice. Maybe not the first time you ask but after a few times almost everyone will, because they will see themselves as assholes if they don't.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Zababa 5y ago
I don't know, more people celebrate Christmas compared to Pride month, but saying "Merry Christmas" can be seen as controversial. It's hard to imagine that "happy Pride month" is completly neutral.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  I've literally never seen anyone complain about "Merry Christmas" except in Fox News fever dreams. Are there actually any examples of people complaining about it? On the other hand, people don't greet me with "happy pride" during June, but they do greet me with "merry Christmas" during December, so perhaps there's a false equivalency there too.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Here's one article from Grammarly about why you should use "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" https://www.grammarly.com/blog/happy-holidays-or-merry-christmas/ https://www.grammarly.com/blog/happy-holidays-or-merry-chris.... > If you say “Merry Christmas” to someone who celebrates Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or nothing at all, you could make them feel marginalized: like their own beliefs aren’t valued or respected by society. And that’s not a good way to feel around the holidays. I'm not sure if that fits "examples of people complaining about it" however, as it's more "people trying to protect the feeling of marginalized groups", which isn't the same. > On the other hand, people don't greet me with "happy pride" during June, but they do greet me with "merry Christmas" during December, so perhaps there's a false equivalency there too. That's fair. Pride month is not a thing where I live, so it's hard to know exactly how people experience it. I was under the impression that it was really important and lots of people talked about it, but maybe it depends on where you live, or maybe it was a warped vision of reality. Though to go back to the original subject, if people don't greet you with "happy Pride" during June, then wishing it would be definitely not neutral.

poszlem 5y ago

How about we stick to "a company can do everything it wants as long as it is legal and people are free to go work at whichever company they want"? Why is that controversial? If you want to effect social change become a politician, do not try to turn your work place into a political party that has to react to every social fashion.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
The problem with the argument that this is making a workplace a political party is what the fuck are you supposed to do if you’re transitioning at work? Now you’re fucking political, and all you want is for your boss to call you she/her and your health insurance to cover your hormones.
- poszlem 5y ago
  I don't think we should optimise workplaces for the smallest possible edge cases. If you joined a bigoted company as a queer person and transitioned then you have to change your job, the same way if you join NPR and suddenly realise after spending too much time online that you are in fact right wing. Work is a place where people go to earn money to do stuff they want after. It's not a place to get validation.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? Dismissing the edge cases of marginalized people is kind of like… of course they’re edge cases. Marginalized people are edge cases by definition.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      > That doesn’t answer my question of what happens if someone transitions in a workplace. How do you do that non-politically? It is simple, you transition, you tell people you want to go by the other name now. If people say it wrong you remind them but don't get angry. If they harass it for it there are laws against harassment, bringing up harassment isn't political. You can discuss the medical benefits with your manager or HR, but don't have to try to make a political campaign about it. If people makes a fuzz over those things then they are political and you can report them to whoever is in charge that they are bringing politics to work and causing problems. If they truly are against politics at work they will take your side and tell those people to stop.
      - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        What do you do if your peer reports you as political because asking people to go by your new name is a political demand? I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political, or trying to use a bathroom you think matches your gender.
        Jensson 5y ago
        If you legally changed your name then it isn't an political act. > I’m genuinely asking, because I’m under the impression that even asking people to respect your pronouns can be too political That is just your assumption here. Why are you assuming that? It is almost as if you assume "apolitical" means "conservative". That isn't true, even if the left tries to tell you that all "apolitical" people are really closet conservatives that isn't really the case.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Lets say that coinbase said "We are fully political at work, we expect all of you to have conservative views!". Would that make you happier than their current apolitical stance?
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender?
    - Jensson 5y ago
      > What do you do in an apolitical workplace and you’re going to engage in controversial medical intervention to align your body with your believed gender? You just do it? In an apolitical workspace that isn't a political act, what you do in your free time is up to you. And if you change your legal name people should update how they call you. Nothing of that is political. If people make a fuzz they are dragging politics in the workspace and should be reprimanded. > I think this is a straw man that doesn’t actually address my question. It isn't a strawman, I am just explaining how politics at work wouldn't solve your problem. However an apolitical workspace actually would solve your problem since it bars conservative politics as well.
      - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
        That’s what I don’t understand, because my understanding is that being conservative or progressive when it comes to trans people is no middle ground. Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice. There are laws passed explicitly around their bathrooms for example.
        Jensson 5y ago
        > Choosing to go with a trans persons new name and pronouns when they are early or mid transition is a political choice No, it is just a kind gesture. It is like people not telling an overweight person they are fat, it is the normal thing to do. And if you go around calling people fat then in any healthy workplace they will call you in for a talk and tell you to stop being so rude. The problem here is that you make this about politics and not about just common decency. If it is about politics then it makes sense for conservatives to reject your wish, you wont change them from being conservatives. But if you make it about common decency instead then they almost surely comply since most people are nice. Maybe not the first time you ask but after a few times almost everyone will, because they will see themselves as assholes if they don't.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Zababa 5y ago

I don't know, more people celebrate Christmas compared to Pride month, but saying "Merry Christmas" can be seen as controversial. It's hard to imagine that "happy Pride month" is completly neutral.

joshuamorton 5y ago
I've literally never seen anyone complain about "Merry Christmas" except in Fox News fever dreams. Are there actually any examples of people complaining about it? On the other hand, people don't greet me with "happy pride" during June, but they do greet me with "merry Christmas" during December, so perhaps there's a false equivalency there too.
- Zababa 5y ago
  Here's one article from Grammarly about why you should use "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" https://www.grammarly.com/blog/happy-holidays-or-merry-christmas/ https://www.grammarly.com/blog/happy-holidays-or-merry-chris.... > If you say “Merry Christmas” to someone who celebrates Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or nothing at all, you could make them feel marginalized: like their own beliefs aren’t valued or respected by society. And that’s not a good way to feel around the holidays. I'm not sure if that fits "examples of people complaining about it" however, as it's more "people trying to protect the feeling of marginalized groups", which isn't the same. > On the other hand, people don't greet me with "happy pride" during June, but they do greet me with "merry Christmas" during December, so perhaps there's a false equivalency there too. That's fair. Pride month is not a thing where I live, so it's hard to know exactly how people experience it. I was under the impression that it was really important and lots of people talked about it, but maybe it depends on where you live, or maybe it was a warped vision of reality. Though to go back to the original subject, if people don't greet you with "happy Pride" during June, then wishing it would be definitely not neutral.