6 ms·

Further, even in cases of "breakthrough" infection, mortality rate is significantly reduced with the vaccine vs unvaccinated. I think people just assume that a

Further, even in cases of "breakthrough" infection, mortality rate is significantly reduced with the vaccine vs unvaccinated. I think people just assume that a "breakthrough" means "didn't work", but that isn't necessarily the case!

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
Yup! Breakthrough infection and breakthrough disease are entirely different things. Ask any ICU nurse what percentage of their COVID patients are unvaccinated. Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency.
- vkou 5y ago
  > Ask any ICU nurse what percentage of their COVID patients are unvaccinated. Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency. My grandfather was vaccinated, but is immuno-deficient, and just caught it from a visit to the hospital. Between his age, and the state of his immune system, he was at death's door for two weeks. If the hospital weren't full of unvaccinated COVID patients to begin with, it's far less likely he would have picked it up there (He doesn't exactly leave the house, except to go the doctor.) As it turns out, the prevalence of the former leads to the latter.
  - OrvalWintermute 5y ago
    A leaky vaccine means that many vaccinated are spreading it. Evidence: "New data was released by the CDC showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant can carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated, though in the vaccinated, these levels rapidly diminish. There is also some question about how cultivatable—or viable—this virus retrieved from vaccinated people actually is. " [1] "Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission." [2] [1] https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-trans... [2] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733
    - vkou 5y ago
      Many vaccinated may be spreading it, but when the only place you have visited before you got sick is full of unvaccinated people who are dying of COVID, you probably should be taking a close look at the latter group.
      - OrvalWintermute 5y ago
        I looked at the NHS numbers. NHS numbers has vaccinated dying at >~60%
- incrudible 5y ago
  > Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated Listen to the dog that is not barking. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions...
- xkbarkar 5y ago
  This is not at all true in Iceland. It was more of a 50% reduction in hospitalizations and our emergency ICU filled up with plenty of fully vaccinated persons. They are relatively fewer that unvaccinated, but no fucking way near the 90% constantly touted in these forums. Mostly frail and obese ofcourse but that is pretty much the same as the unvaccinated account. We had to go back to our modest restrictions even with a very high vaccination rate because of this. On a side note, I am on of the 20000 Icelanders that got full double moderna inocculation and I suffered through the absolute worst nights of my life after the second dose. Took about one month to recover. But I digress. I have to admit that I am nervous about the winter surge. Our hospital system is full to the brink with non covid patients. Its now in a much worse state than it was during the entire past 18 panic months of lockdown and masks. Mostly frail elderly that we do not have any other beds in nursing homes for. Not a single fucking mention og hospital collapse though. We have patiens in staff breakrooms becuse the hospital is so full. The fancy reporting of the fantastic vaccine efficacy actually translated to about half of what the medical companies promised. We are potentially looking at yet another lockdown winter because we have almost no natural immunity ( which is recognized in Iceland as far superiour to vaccine immunity) and our shit healthcare system is already in deep trouble. The mainstream medias, blatant lies, are easy to verify in Iceland because we are such a tiny homogenous population with very good concise records. Look at our actual data on covid.is.
  - orra 5y ago
    > It was more of a 50% reduction No, it's better than you think. According to my favourite immunologist, Iceland reports vaccine effectiveness of 60% against ANY infection and 90% against severe disease. See thread at https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1427614145214550020 https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/142761414521455002.... > and our emergency ICU filled up with plenty of fully vaccinated persons Yes, because sadly lots of people caught COVID, not because vaccines don't work. It's worth remembering, also, that vaccination reduces transmission, in turn reducing severe cases.
    - angelzen 5y ago
      The reduction in transmission rates is smaller than you'd think. At 3 months the reduction has diminished substantially, 58% transmission risk, marginally better than 67% for unvaccinated people. There is no data yet for 6 months, 1 year, 5 years. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...
- OrvalWintermute 5y ago
  > Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency. Maybe you should reconsider the biases of your sources, and ask if they are conflating correlation with causation: Israel[1], Ireland [2], The UK [3] I recognize that it is most probable that the most vulnerable are likely getting vaxxed, and likely to get a breakthrough also. [1] https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/08/most-covid-patients-at-israeli-hospital-fully-vaccinated-what-does-this-mean-for-australia/ https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/08/most-covid-patients-at-... [2] https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-patients-with-virus-are-fully-vaccinated-1.4670229 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-... [3] https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/04/deaths-hospital-vaccinated-uk.html https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/04/deaths-hospital-vacci...

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

Yup! Breakthrough infection and breakthrough disease are entirely different things. Ask any ICU nurse what percentage of their COVID patients are unvaccinated. Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency.

vkou 5y ago
> Ask any ICU nurse what percentage of their COVID patients are unvaccinated. Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency. My grandfather was vaccinated, but is immuno-deficient, and just caught it from a visit to the hospital. Between his age, and the state of his immune system, he was at death's door for two weeks. If the hospital weren't full of unvaccinated COVID patients to begin with, it's far less likely he would have picked it up there (He doesn't exactly leave the house, except to go the doctor.) As it turns out, the prevalence of the former leads to the latter.
- OrvalWintermute 5y ago
  A leaky vaccine means that many vaccinated are spreading it. Evidence: "New data was released by the CDC showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant can carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated, though in the vaccinated, these levels rapidly diminish. There is also some question about how cultivatable—or viable—this virus retrieved from vaccinated people actually is. " [1] "Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission." [2] [1] https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-trans... [2] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733
  - vkou 5y ago
    Many vaccinated may be spreading it, but when the only place you have visited before you got sick is full of unvaccinated people who are dying of COVID, you probably should be taking a close look at the latter group.
    - OrvalWintermute 5y ago
      I looked at the NHS numbers. NHS numbers has vaccinated dying at >~60%
incrudible 5y ago
> Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated Listen to the dog that is not barking. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions...
xkbarkar 5y ago
This is not at all true in Iceland. It was more of a 50% reduction in hospitalizations and our emergency ICU filled up with plenty of fully vaccinated persons. They are relatively fewer that unvaccinated, but no fucking way near the 90% constantly touted in these forums. Mostly frail and obese ofcourse but that is pretty much the same as the unvaccinated account. We had to go back to our modest restrictions even with a very high vaccination rate because of this. On a side note, I am on of the 20000 Icelanders that got full double moderna inocculation and I suffered through the absolute worst nights of my life after the second dose. Took about one month to recover. But I digress. I have to admit that I am nervous about the winter surge. Our hospital system is full to the brink with non covid patients. Its now in a much worse state than it was during the entire past 18 panic months of lockdown and masks. Mostly frail elderly that we do not have any other beds in nursing homes for. Not a single fucking mention og hospital collapse though. We have patiens in staff breakrooms becuse the hospital is so full. The fancy reporting of the fantastic vaccine efficacy actually translated to about half of what the medical companies promised. We are potentially looking at yet another lockdown winter because we have almost no natural immunity ( which is recognized in Iceland as far superiour to vaccine immunity) and our shit healthcare system is already in deep trouble. The mainstream medias, blatant lies, are easy to verify in Iceland because we are such a tiny homogenous population with very good concise records. Look at our actual data on covid.is.
- orra 5y ago
  > It was more of a 50% reduction No, it's better than you think. According to my favourite immunologist, Iceland reports vaccine effectiveness of 60% against ANY infection and 90% against severe disease. See thread at https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1427614145214550020 https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/142761414521455002.... > and our emergency ICU filled up with plenty of fully vaccinated persons Yes, because sadly lots of people caught COVID, not because vaccines don't work. It's worth remembering, also, that vaccination reduces transmission, in turn reducing severe cases.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    The reduction in transmission rates is smaller than you'd think. At 3 months the reduction has diminished substantially, 58% transmission risk, marginally better than 67% for unvaccinated people. There is no data yet for 6 months, 1 year, 5 years. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...
OrvalWintermute 5y ago
> Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency. Maybe you should reconsider the biases of your sources, and ask if they are conflating correlation with causation: Israel[1], Ireland [2], The UK [3] I recognize that it is most probable that the most vulnerable are likely getting vaxxed, and likely to get a breakthrough also. [1] https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/08/most-covid-patients-at-israeli-hospital-fully-vaccinated-what-does-this-mean-for-australia/ https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/08/most-covid-patients-at-... [2] https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-patients-with-virus-are-fully-vaccinated-1.4670229 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-... [3] https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/04/deaths-hospital-vaccinated-uk.html https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/04/deaths-hospital-vacci...