6 ms·

Why should any insurance cover elective procedures? You could also add things like beauty surgeries, hair transplant, lasik surgeries etc. (I know that EU insur

by tomp 5y ago

Why should any insurance cover elective procedures? You could also add things like beauty surgeries, hair transplant, lasik surgeries etc. (I know that EU insurances often cover birth control, but I think that's mostly because it's a drug prescribed by a doctor so it fits into the framework... I don't think it should cover birth control (except maybe for young people before they start working) - that's not insurance, it's just a subscription service so you're better off buying it directly.)

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
Birth control is prescribed by a doctor for a wide variety of things, including chronic health conditions. If you think insurance shouldn’t cover birth control because it’s consistent, do diabetics also not deserve to have insulin covered, or high blood pressure people their statins?
- tomp 5y ago
  Sure, in that case if it’s medically indicated and not elective, that’s a different situation.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    Why does a workplace get to determine what is and isn’t medically elective for a woman to take birth control? Isn’t that political too?
    - darkwater 5y ago
      Obviously it is. But for people defending all kinds of status quo, it's a political act just trying to change it. Trying to keep it as it is, it's seen as "normal" or apolitical.
    - tomp 5y ago
      I'm not arguing about politics, I'm putting in question the whole idea of making voluntary (not sure if that's the correct term - definitely not elective as I was corrected above) medical procedures available through insurance. Insurance is meant for unpredictable and unforeseen exceptional events. Wanting to have beauty surgery, or contraception, or lasik surgery, etc. isn't such. You could still argue that these should be covered by insurance, but that's simply economically inefficient - you're essentially paying for a subscription service, with the middle man taking a cut - why not just buy it yourself?
      - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
        I see the confusion. American health insurance doesn’t really fit the term insurance as you define it above. I agree, insurance should be for catastrophic events. But in the US, a health plan is expected to cover all your medical expenses, minus co-pays or deductibles. Perhaps there should be a different term for it.
  - chaoskanzlerin 5y ago
    I'm not sure whether you include trans healthcare among "shouldn't be covered", so here's my 2 cents: - Most of Europe prescribes hormones upon a medical indication. This leads to bad gatekeeping; I've been told to see 3 different professionals before starting hormones. - Anecdotally, I'm on grey market hormones while waiting, without any bloodwork - before starting those hormones, I've had suicidal ideations on a daily basis. - This seems to be backed by data as well: Ideation rates are reported to be 37-83% and attempt rates are reported to be 9.8-44%. [0] Given the frequent outcomes of depression and suicide, I think it's fair to say that trans healthcare is not optional and should be fully covered. [0] https://doi.org/10.1037/sgd0000235 https://doi.org/10.1037/sgd0000235
throwanem 5y ago
"Elective" in "elective procedure" doesn't mean "optional and potentially frivolous." It just means "not emergent", or put differently it means you won't die if you don't have it right now. Kidney stone surgery is elective. Cancer resection is elective. Most heart surgery is elective. Most brain surgery is elective. I assume you're not arguing that health insurance shouldn't cover these things, because that would be extremely foolish. It may, though, be worth acquainting yourself with at least the basic terminology of the field about which you want to argue, because overlooking this point makes you seem as if you don't really know what you're talking about.
- tomp 5y ago
  What’s the correct term?
  - throwanem 5y ago
    To the best of my knowledge, there exists no term in the medical lexicon denoting the category of "interventions 'tomp believes should not be covered in some or all cases by health insurance."
    - tomp 5y ago
      what category does "beauty plastic surgery" fall under, if not "emergency" or "elective"?
      - throwanem 5y ago
        Cosmesis is elective. Neither of us is going to convince one another; you very evidently have strongly held opinions about how medicine should be practiced, whereas I know some things about how it is. That being so, I see no point in continuing this line of discussion any further. Should you feel otherwise, I hope you enjoy it.
        tomp 5y ago
        The core reasons seems to be that you seem to keep misrepresenting my arguments. I'm not talking about "practicing medicine" at all, just about who pays for what.

by tomp 5y ago

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

Birth control is prescribed by a doctor for a wide variety of things, including chronic health conditions. If you think insurance shouldn’t cover birth control because it’s consistent, do diabetics also not deserve to have insulin covered, or high blood pressure people their statins?

tomp 5y ago
Sure, in that case if it’s medically indicated and not elective, that’s a different situation.
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  Why does a workplace get to determine what is and isn’t medically elective for a woman to take birth control? Isn’t that political too?
  - darkwater 5y ago
    Obviously it is. But for people defending all kinds of status quo, it's a political act just trying to change it. Trying to keep it as it is, it's seen as "normal" or apolitical.
  - tomp 5y ago
    I'm not arguing about politics, I'm putting in question the whole idea of making voluntary (not sure if that's the correct term - definitely not elective as I was corrected above) medical procedures available through insurance. Insurance is meant for unpredictable and unforeseen exceptional events. Wanting to have beauty surgery, or contraception, or lasik surgery, etc. isn't such. You could still argue that these should be covered by insurance, but that's simply economically inefficient - you're essentially paying for a subscription service, with the middle man taking a cut - why not just buy it yourself?
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      I see the confusion. American health insurance doesn’t really fit the term insurance as you define it above. I agree, insurance should be for catastrophic events. But in the US, a health plan is expected to cover all your medical expenses, minus co-pays or deductibles. Perhaps there should be a different term for it.
- chaoskanzlerin 5y ago
  I'm not sure whether you include trans healthcare among "shouldn't be covered", so here's my 2 cents: - Most of Europe prescribes hormones upon a medical indication. This leads to bad gatekeeping; I've been told to see 3 different professionals before starting hormones. - Anecdotally, I'm on grey market hormones while waiting, without any bloodwork - before starting those hormones, I've had suicidal ideations on a daily basis. - This seems to be backed by data as well: Ideation rates are reported to be 37-83% and attempt rates are reported to be 9.8-44%. [0] Given the frequent outcomes of depression and suicide, I think it's fair to say that trans healthcare is not optional and should be fully covered. [0] https://doi.org/10.1037/sgd0000235 https://doi.org/10.1037/sgd0000235

throwanem 5y ago

"Elective" in "elective procedure" doesn't mean "optional and potentially frivolous." It just means "not emergent", or put differently it means you won't die if you don't have it right now. Kidney stone surgery is elective. Cancer resection is elective. Most heart surgery is elective. Most brain surgery is elective. I assume you're not arguing that health insurance shouldn't cover these things, because that would be extremely foolish. It may, though, be worth acquainting yourself with at least the basic terminology of the field about which you want to argue, because overlooking this point makes you seem as if you don't really know what you're talking about.

tomp 5y ago
What’s the correct term?
- throwanem 5y ago
  To the best of my knowledge, there exists no term in the medical lexicon denoting the category of "interventions 'tomp believes should not be covered in some or all cases by health insurance."
  - tomp 5y ago
    what category does "beauty plastic surgery" fall under, if not "emergency" or "elective"?
    - throwanem 5y ago
      Cosmesis is elective. Neither of us is going to convince one another; you very evidently have strongly held opinions about how medicine should be practiced, whereas I know some things about how it is. That being so, I see no point in continuing this line of discussion any further. Should you feel otherwise, I hope you enjoy it.
      - tomp 5y ago
        The core reasons seems to be that you seem to keep misrepresenting my arguments. I'm not talking about "practicing medicine" at all, just about who pays for what.