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And why is it so important that businesses pay a high corporate tax rate? Isn't it enough to tax the money when it actually leaves the business? (Is paid out.)

And why is it so important that businesses pay a high corporate tax rate? Isn't it enough to tax the money when it actually leaves the business? (Is paid out.) Some economists say that corporate taxes distort capital allocation.[0] A minimum global tax rate removes the ability for a country to decide for themselves whether they want this or not. Estonia, for example, is worried that their tax system has to change as a result, because they don't charge a corporate tax on money that's reinvested or retained. Edit: apparently Estonia is banking on an exemption for reinvestment. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/economic_paper/2013/pdf/ecp503_en.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/economic_p...

Aa9C4xPz43Gg7k6 5y ago
For socialists it's never enough, money has to be taxed 10 times. And I'm not using it in the slur way that Americans usually do. There's a kind of thinking that believes that money belongs to the person who earned it. There's another kind of thinking that treats everything as communal (but managed by elite class at the top of the system), taking anything away from the pile is evil then.
- Volundr 5y ago
  I think you would find many take issue with the concept that those getting rich are by definition the ones who "earned" it, or produced the value. Almost by definition I produced more value than my salary. There's also the issue of resources. How is it that a corporation can own the oil under my land? Why should that common resource be controlled by some private entity rather than being used for the common good? There's a balance in all things and attempting to boil this down to "there are two kinds of people" is reductive and unhelpful.
wolverine876 5y ago
> why is it so important that businesses pay a high corporate tax rate? It's not a high rate; 15% is low - is there a lower income tax rate for any entity? It's important because societies need money to operate, including many things on which businesses depend such infrastructure; a good legal system; a healthy, educated, and prosperous population; security; stable, well-regulated markets; etc. If they don't pay their share, then others must or societies lose valuable things.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  Are corporations people now? Do they have their own special set of rights and privileges like people do? Ultimately, corporations are groups of people. Why isn't it sufficient to tax the money when the owners of the corporation are trying to cash out through dividends or in some other way? Why does it have to be taxed every year like income? Why is it necessary to tax money that the corporation would otherwise invest in R&D?
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > Are corporations people now? Do they have their own special set of rights and privileges like people do? Yes, that is why the legal structure exists: They've always been 'fictional persons'. That's what a corporation is: A separate entity where money can be pooled and personal liability (and taxes) limited, with it its own rights and privileges. It's fundamental to a corporation. > Ultimately, corporations are groups of people. Why isn't it sufficient to tax the money when the owners of the corporation are trying to cash out through dividends or in some other way? Why does it have to be taxed every year like income? Why is it necessary to tax money that the corporation would otherwise invest in R&D? That's called a partnership, and you are free to setup your business in that way. I'd talk to a lawyer first; there might be a reason that every major business is setup as a corporation - there must be something they like about it. Why must I personally pay taxes on money I'd use to invest in other things? All money in the economy is productive, yet we must tax something. Why does the corporation get off free while, requiring me to pay more?
    - kukx 5y ago
      Your last argument could be reduced to "if evil happens to me, why not make it happen to others". If taxing investment is bad let's agree not to do it, instead of perpetuating the abuse. And no, definitely not all money is productive and it can be easily wasted on worthless products and services. Taxing the tools to create value is not the same as taxing for example vodka.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
closeparen 5y ago
A corporation successfully reinvesting its profits makes shareholders wealthier. People are concerned about how wealthy those shareholders are getting. Personal income tax is not a solution for wealth inequality. The problem as stated is not what rich people are selling, it's what they own.
bin_bash 5y ago
Because billionaires never take the money out. They just take out loans using their assets as collateral. If they need to make payments they just take out more loans.
- mr_toad 5y ago
  This is the real answer, but it’s not just billionaires. It’s pretty easy for a small business owner or even a sole trader to get away with using business assets for personal use.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  This is one tax I do agree on. A wealth tax for anything over 100 million seems fair. 1-2% would be a great start.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  And this new minimum tax changes things how? We still tax the money that is paid out from the company. Every incentive to do this scheme still exists, because personal income taxes are way higher than this minimum corporate tax.

Aa9C4xPz43Gg7k6 5y ago

For socialists it's never enough, money has to be taxed 10 times. And I'm not using it in the slur way that Americans usually do. There's a kind of thinking that believes that money belongs to the person who earned it. There's another kind of thinking that treats everything as communal (but managed by elite class at the top of the system), taking anything away from the pile is evil then.

Volundr 5y ago
I think you would find many take issue with the concept that those getting rich are by definition the ones who "earned" it, or produced the value. Almost by definition I produced more value than my salary. There's also the issue of resources. How is it that a corporation can own the oil under my land? Why should that common resource be controlled by some private entity rather than being used for the common good? There's a balance in all things and attempting to boil this down to "there are two kinds of people" is reductive and unhelpful.

wolverine876 5y ago

> why is it so important that businesses pay a high corporate tax rate? It's not a high rate; 15% is low - is there a lower income tax rate for any entity? It's important because societies need money to operate, including many things on which businesses depend such infrastructure; a good legal system; a healthy, educated, and prosperous population; security; stable, well-regulated markets; etc. If they don't pay their share, then others must or societies lose valuable things.

Aerroon 5y ago
Are corporations people now? Do they have their own special set of rights and privileges like people do? Ultimately, corporations are groups of people. Why isn't it sufficient to tax the money when the owners of the corporation are trying to cash out through dividends or in some other way? Why does it have to be taxed every year like income? Why is it necessary to tax money that the corporation would otherwise invest in R&D?
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > Are corporations people now? Do they have their own special set of rights and privileges like people do? Yes, that is why the legal structure exists: They've always been 'fictional persons'. That's what a corporation is: A separate entity where money can be pooled and personal liability (and taxes) limited, with it its own rights and privileges. It's fundamental to a corporation. > Ultimately, corporations are groups of people. Why isn't it sufficient to tax the money when the owners of the corporation are trying to cash out through dividends or in some other way? Why does it have to be taxed every year like income? Why is it necessary to tax money that the corporation would otherwise invest in R&D? That's called a partnership, and you are free to setup your business in that way. I'd talk to a lawyer first; there might be a reason that every major business is setup as a corporation - there must be something they like about it. Why must I personally pay taxes on money I'd use to invest in other things? All money in the economy is productive, yet we must tax something. Why does the corporation get off free while, requiring me to pay more?
  - kukx 5y ago
    Your last argument could be reduced to "if evil happens to me, why not make it happen to others". If taxing investment is bad let's agree not to do it, instead of perpetuating the abuse. And no, definitely not all money is productive and it can be easily wasted on worthless products and services. Taxing the tools to create value is not the same as taxing for example vodka.
    - wolverine876 5y ago

closeparen 5y ago

A corporation successfully reinvesting its profits makes shareholders wealthier. People are concerned about how wealthy those shareholders are getting. Personal income tax is not a solution for wealth inequality. The problem as stated is not what rich people are selling, it's what they own.

bin_bash 5y ago

Because billionaires never take the money out. They just take out loans using their assets as collateral. If they need to make payments they just take out more loans.

mr_toad 5y ago
This is the real answer, but it’s not just billionaires. It’s pretty easy for a small business owner or even a sole trader to get away with using business assets for personal use.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
This is one tax I do agree on. A wealth tax for anything over 100 million seems fair. 1-2% would be a great start.
Aerroon 5y ago
And this new minimum tax changes things how? We still tax the money that is paid out from the company. Every incentive to do this scheme still exists, because personal income taxes are way higher than this minimum corporate tax.