4 ms·

Unless you're labor. Capital can speak up about whatever it wants (so long as it doesn't start sympathizing with labor, of course)

by ohazi 5y ago

ianbutler 5y ago
You're paid to do a job. Politics is for your personal time. We need to work on getting more personal time for people so people can focus on those passions instead of further blending work and personal life.
- emsy 5y ago
  That’s actually an insightful comment. Of course if you do sports, eat and socialize at work so that the company can keep you there for 12 hours people have no other possible outlet for their political activism.
- clumpthump 5y ago
  Want workers to have more personal time? Encourage people to "be political" at work.
- rhcom2 5y ago
  > We need to work on getting more personal time for people Which was the original goal of unions, something I would think would count as being "political" at work.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Work time ceases to be work time when your hours on the job take up more than a quarter of the time in a calendar day, and that's probably the maximum upper limit, in honesty. As societies we have structured our adult lives around a window from 9 to 5 in which we are supposed to work and also interface with every other adult that works. It's an untenable situation at best.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  > You're paid to do a job. Politics is for your personal time. It's remarkable how easily we've forgotten that the very concept of "personal time" took decades of sustained political effort at the workplace.
  - Grimm1 5y ago
    Sustained political effort - in spite of the established rules. Every one of those people risked their jobs and in many cases their health and life fighting for those rights against laws and established order. People today want their cake and to eat it to. They want the people who made an economic exchange for their labor also let them do things that work directly against their "the purchaser's" interests. How about people organize mass strikes? Scared of losing their jobs? Too busy? Not enough time? The OG labor movement had all of that and dealt with violent opposition to boot. Maybe things aren't that bad and it's a minority whining? I don't know but something isn't adding up to me. How about people decide to take action -- regardless of the consequences to themselves instead of worrying about maintaining the scraps they're fed in the process? Why is today so much different than yesterday that people don't want to risk their standing and their lives for their principals and expect it just to happen, to be given? All the whining is just theatre as far as I'm concerned until people start actually making the hard decisions and doing something at risk to themselves for what they believe. Why do people seem so hypocritical compared to the people during those decades you mention? The owners of Coinbase made a stand for what they believe in, I support that. Maybe the otherside of the table needs to take that collective action they talk so much about instead of talking. Edit: And you know I'm not sorry but I just don't feel bad for office workers bitching about their jobs. I feel bad for the front line workers, in the stores in the warehouses in logistics and shipping. They actually have real gripes to contend with being physically worn down everyday yet we lump the person sitting in their office chair reading reddit for 8 hours with these people actually killing themselves to get you a package a couple hours sooner. Note: This isn't aimed at you directly but very much what I feel is the superficialness of many movements today.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      The difference between traditional union organizing and the social justice crusaders here is that the unions were fighting management to improve the material well being of the workers. They wanted more sick leave, higher wages, etc. The present-day crusaders are attacking their fellow employees (who disagree with them) as well as customers (trying to get customers who disagree with them dropped). They are most certainly not fighting management. Management gets involved in those cases where it tries to stop one of the crusading employees from harassing another employee or customer, at which point there are demonstrations to try to get the enemy coworker or employee dropped. That is why this is not at all like the unionization efforts of the past.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  In the same light, I'm also not paid to believe in some ludicrous "mission". That's something for my personal time in GTA. Unless I have genuine equity, in which I stand to gain from the company's overall success. In that case though, I should also have some level of say in what I can talk about at work.
- garrickvanburen 5y ago
  Your job is to support and maintain the policies of your employer. That’s inherently political.
- walls 5y ago
  > You're paid to do a job. And then the company you work for takes the profits from that effort and donates it to politicians to further the executive agenda.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > We need to work on getting more personal time for people You mean controls on working hours? Four day weeks? There are those who’d say that was extremely political (and they’d be right; the two day weekend was largely invented by the labour movement, surely the epitome of politics at work, back in the day).
rglover 5y ago
I'm going to take a wild guess and say if you work at Coinbase—voluntarily—you're extremely well paid. You're the farthest thing from a victim. Just because you can't raise your fist and scream at your coworkers doesn't mean you're oppressed.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  This is the kind of parallel argumentation that tech workers (and their managers) make against unionization ("you're too well paid to need a union"). It misses the point -- they don't need to be "oppressed" to be justified in talking about politics at work, the same way they don't need to be underpaid to be justified in unionizing. Each is a perfectly sufficient end in itself.
- malermeister 5y ago
  Just because you're part of what is called "Labor aristocracy" in Marxist discourse doesn't mean you can't recognize the exploitation inherent to the system. You don't need to be on the losing side of an unjust system to recognize the system as unjust.
  - rglover 5y ago
    So quit.
    - malermeister 5y ago
      Sounds like the entire argument went way over your head. Quitting doesn't change anything about the inherently exploitative relationship of labor and capital.
    - rglover 5y ago
      I'm not allowed to reply to you directly but responding to your response to "so quit," okay, go live on a commune then. Live your values and demonstrate to the world why your way of life is better.
      - 5y ago

Unless you're labor. Capital can speak up about whatever it wants (so long as it doesn't start sympathizing with labor, of course)

by ohazi 5y ago

Unless you're labor. Capital can speak up about whatever it wants (so long as it doesn't start sympathizing with labor, of course)

ianbutler 5y ago

You're paid to do a job. Politics is for your personal time. We need to work on getting more personal time for people so people can focus on those passions instead of further blending work and personal life.

emsy 5y ago
That’s actually an insightful comment. Of course if you do sports, eat and socialize at work so that the company can keep you there for 12 hours people have no other possible outlet for their political activism.
clumpthump 5y ago
Want workers to have more personal time? Encourage people to "be political" at work.
rhcom2 5y ago
> We need to work on getting more personal time for people Which was the original goal of unions, something I would think would count as being "political" at work.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Work time ceases to be work time when your hours on the job take up more than a quarter of the time in a calendar day, and that's probably the maximum upper limit, in honesty. As societies we have structured our adult lives around a window from 9 to 5 in which we are supposed to work and also interface with every other adult that works. It's an untenable situation at best.
woodruffw 5y ago
> You're paid to do a job. Politics is for your personal time. It's remarkable how easily we've forgotten that the very concept of "personal time" took decades of sustained political effort at the workplace.
- Grimm1 5y ago
  Sustained political effort - in spite of the established rules. Every one of those people risked their jobs and in many cases their health and life fighting for those rights against laws and established order. People today want their cake and to eat it to. They want the people who made an economic exchange for their labor also let them do things that work directly against their "the purchaser's" interests. How about people organize mass strikes? Scared of losing their jobs? Too busy? Not enough time? The OG labor movement had all of that and dealt with violent opposition to boot. Maybe things aren't that bad and it's a minority whining? I don't know but something isn't adding up to me. How about people decide to take action -- regardless of the consequences to themselves instead of worrying about maintaining the scraps they're fed in the process? Why is today so much different than yesterday that people don't want to risk their standing and their lives for their principals and expect it just to happen, to be given? All the whining is just theatre as far as I'm concerned until people start actually making the hard decisions and doing something at risk to themselves for what they believe. Why do people seem so hypocritical compared to the people during those decades you mention? The owners of Coinbase made a stand for what they believe in, I support that. Maybe the otherside of the table needs to take that collective action they talk so much about instead of talking. Edit: And you know I'm not sorry but I just don't feel bad for office workers bitching about their jobs. I feel bad for the front line workers, in the stores in the warehouses in logistics and shipping. They actually have real gripes to contend with being physically worn down everyday yet we lump the person sitting in their office chair reading reddit for 8 hours with these people actually killing themselves to get you a package a couple hours sooner. Note: This isn't aimed at you directly but very much what I feel is the superficialness of many movements today.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    The difference between traditional union organizing and the social justice crusaders here is that the unions were fighting management to improve the material well being of the workers. They wanted more sick leave, higher wages, etc. The present-day crusaders are attacking their fellow employees (who disagree with them) as well as customers (trying to get customers who disagree with them dropped). They are most certainly not fighting management. Management gets involved in those cases where it tries to stop one of the crusading employees from harassing another employee or customer, at which point there are demonstrations to try to get the enemy coworker or employee dropped. That is why this is not at all like the unionization efforts of the past.
brailsafe 5y ago
In the same light, I'm also not paid to believe in some ludicrous "mission". That's something for my personal time in GTA. Unless I have genuine equity, in which I stand to gain from the company's overall success. In that case though, I should also have some level of say in what I can talk about at work.
garrickvanburen 5y ago
Your job is to support and maintain the policies of your employer. That’s inherently political.
walls 5y ago
> You're paid to do a job. And then the company you work for takes the profits from that effort and donates it to politicians to further the executive agenda.
rsynnott 5y ago
> We need to work on getting more personal time for people You mean controls on working hours? Four day weeks? There are those who’d say that was extremely political (and they’d be right; the two day weekend was largely invented by the labour movement, surely the epitome of politics at work, back in the day).

rglover 5y ago

I'm going to take a wild guess and say if you work at Coinbase—voluntarily—you're extremely well paid. You're the farthest thing from a victim. Just because you can't raise your fist and scream at your coworkers doesn't mean you're oppressed.

woodruffw 5y ago
This is the kind of parallel argumentation that tech workers (and their managers) make against unionization ("you're too well paid to need a union"). It misses the point -- they don't need to be "oppressed" to be justified in talking about politics at work, the same way they don't need to be underpaid to be justified in unionizing. Each is a perfectly sufficient end in itself.
malermeister 5y ago
Just because you're part of what is called "Labor aristocracy" in Marxist discourse doesn't mean you can't recognize the exploitation inherent to the system. You don't need to be on the losing side of an unjust system to recognize the system as unjust.
- rglover 5y ago
  So quit.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    Sounds like the entire argument went way over your head. Quitting doesn't change anything about the inherently exploitative relationship of labor and capital.
  - rglover 5y ago
    I'm not allowed to reply to you directly but responding to your response to "so quit," okay, go live on a commune then. Live your values and demonstrate to the world why your way of life is better.
    - 5y ago