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> Adjust that for the fact that they have basically no rational reason whatsoever to commit crimes They may have no rational reason to fear prosecution, but th

> Adjust that for the fact that they have basically no rational reason whatsoever to commit crimes They may have no rational reason to fear prosecution, but they commit crimes all the time. Becoming untouchably wealthy does not remove base desires from anyone, it only shields them from accountability. "The uber-rich also shield their wealth through elaborate purchases of real estate, yachts, jets and life insurance. Moving money around between bank accounts, estate and inheritance planning, engaging in a web of complex financial engineering, help them from paying their fair share of taxes. Some of the documents suggest the possibility of financial crimes, including money laundering."[1] If you don't file your taxes correctly and you fail to pay the fines, or you attempt to defraud the government, there's a very good chance you will do time. The same is not true of the billionaire class no matter how much money the steal through tax avoidance schemes. Once they have enough money, they can lawyer up and get out of just about anything, even the repeated sexual assault of their own family.[2] The only time they are held to account, with a few exceptions, is when the victims are other billionaires or powerful autocratic states. This is not some new anti-wealth idea. Equal application of the law regardless of wealth, birth, or status is the fundamental American value. Or at least it was. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/10/04/the-pandora-papers-exposed-how-the-worlds-rich-and-famous-hide-their-wealth-with-tax-avoidance-schemes/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/10/04/the-pandor... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/cartercoudriet/2019/06/28/curt-johnson-billionaire-sexual-assault/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/cartercoudriet/2019/06/28/curt-...

roenxi 5y ago
They are billionaires. They can probably just buy what they want, even for some of the more out-there base desires. Why risk jail time? You seem to be going to tax minimisation - sure, the billionaires have a massive advantage when they engage with the law relative to you or I - but there is no reason they should go to jail for that. The basic assumption is if you have multiple accountants doing your tax return then the tax return should be legally proper. It got a lot of attention.
- nicoffeine 5y ago
  I'm not talking about Zuck trying to buy a personality in the form of a custom yacht. I'm talking about Epstein and people like that who prefer to rent people against their will, or the Sacklers who will gladly set ethics and death tolls aside if there is enough profit opportunity. Billionaires should to go jail for tax fraud, preferably in proportion to the amount of money they stole. They are not running their itemized deductions by a typical accounting firm. They are seeking out teams of lawyers and accountants with a reputation for hiding money, and paying millions of dollars because they expect them to be good at it.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    Most of your points I'm ignoring, but just pointing out the part that seems most obvious to me... If a large team of expert lawyers and accountants comes up with a plan of action, the odds of it being illegal are tiny. It isn't a fair process, unbiased or transparent. But it doesn't make much sense to expect that billionaires would be jailed for tax fraud. They've got more money than they can spend, why risk going to jail at all. They might do that, but it isn't a rational thing to do. Sure it can happen, but there needs to be actual evidence before anyone should assume it is widespread.
    - nicoffeine 5y ago
      > Most of your points I'm ignoring Easier than a counterpoint, sure. > Sure it can happen, but there needs to be actual evidence before anyone should assume it is widespread. Do[1] you[2] read[3] the[4] news[5]? [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-01/russian-billionaire-tinkov-to-pay-500-million-in-u-s-tax-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-01/russian-b... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-billionaire-behind-the-biggest-u-s-tax-fraud-case-ever-filed-11614785519 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-billionaire-behind-the-bigg... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2021/04/16/tax-attorney-faces-14-years-in-prison-for-allegedly-helping-billionaires-robert-smith-and-bob-brockman-dodge-the-irs/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2021/04/16/ta... [4] https://slate.com/business/2014/05/richard-branson-tax-fraud-how-a-youthful-indiscretion-helped-create-a-billionaire.html https://slate.com/business/2014/05/richard-branson-tax-fraud... [5] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2021/08/24/companies-linked-to-chinese-billionaire-convicted-of-18-billion-tariff-evasion-scheme/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2021/08/24/companies-link...

roenxi 5y ago

They are billionaires. They can probably just buy what they want, even for some of the more out-there base desires. Why risk jail time? You seem to be going to tax minimisation - sure, the billionaires have a massive advantage when they engage with the law relative to you or I - but there is no reason they should go to jail for that. The basic assumption is if you have multiple accountants doing your tax return then the tax return should be legally proper. It got a lot of attention.

nicoffeine 5y ago
I'm not talking about Zuck trying to buy a personality in the form of a custom yacht. I'm talking about Epstein and people like that who prefer to rent people against their will, or the Sacklers who will gladly set ethics and death tolls aside if there is enough profit opportunity. Billionaires should to go jail for tax fraud, preferably in proportion to the amount of money they stole. They are not running their itemized deductions by a typical accounting firm. They are seeking out teams of lawyers and accountants with a reputation for hiding money, and paying millions of dollars because they expect them to be good at it.
- roenxi 5y ago
  Most of your points I'm ignoring, but just pointing out the part that seems most obvious to me... If a large team of expert lawyers and accountants comes up with a plan of action, the odds of it being illegal are tiny. It isn't a fair process, unbiased or transparent. But it doesn't make much sense to expect that billionaires would be jailed for tax fraud. They've got more money than they can spend, why risk going to jail at all. They might do that, but it isn't a rational thing to do. Sure it can happen, but there needs to be actual evidence before anyone should assume it is widespread.
  - nicoffeine 5y ago
    > Most of your points I'm ignoring Easier than a counterpoint, sure. > Sure it can happen, but there needs to be actual evidence before anyone should assume it is widespread. Do[1] you[2] read[3] the[4] news[5]? [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-01/russian-billionaire-tinkov-to-pay-500-million-in-u-s-tax-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-01/russian-b... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-billionaire-behind-the-biggest-u-s-tax-fraud-case-ever-filed-11614785519 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-billionaire-behind-the-bigg... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2021/04/16/tax-attorney-faces-14-years-in-prison-for-allegedly-helping-billionaires-robert-smith-and-bob-brockman-dodge-the-irs/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2021/04/16/ta... [4] https://slate.com/business/2014/05/richard-branson-tax-fraud-how-a-youthful-indiscretion-helped-create-a-billionaire.html https://slate.com/business/2014/05/richard-branson-tax-fraud... [5] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2021/08/24/companies-linked-to-chinese-billionaire-convicted-of-18-billion-tariff-evasion-scheme/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2021/08/24/companies-link...