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I've been using a Dual core Atom Netbook as my portable computer for 3 years. 120GB SSD, 9 Cell Battery, 2GB RAM. Total Price: $450. Granted, not sexy looki

I've been using a Dual core Atom Netbook as my portable computer for 3 years. 120GB SSD, 9 Cell Battery, 2GB RAM. Total Price: $450. Granted, not sexy looking at all. Not particularly thin. Runs Windows 7 Ultimate like a champ. The only time the low processing power ever bothers me is when I'm unzipping large files. It's cheap, made of plastic and plastered with stickers. I carry it in my man purse, and bounce it around with me pretty much everywhere I go. I've been doing that for years. Everything is backed up to DropBox. It's so cheap as to be disposable. If it breaks, I don't care. I'll buy a new one. I have a full set of USB / Network, VGA ports, and I don't have to worry about buying extra dongles to connect things to a projector. The little brute has been stable as a rock. I can't remember a single crash in 3 years. It has enough battery life for me to be able to Code from Barcelona to SFO on one charge, and I typically charge the little beast about once or twice a week. Yup. PC makers just can't keep up.

thaumaturgy 15y ago
Meanwhile, my main system is an Apple laptop which is not much older ... and my OS is now two versions out of date, since Apple stopped supporting it. The set of software I can run on it is becoming more and more limited, as more developers give up supporting my terribly antiquated operating system and hardware, and move on to the current thing. This is the third time this has happened to me. I don't care if PC makers can or cannot keep up with Apple. All I know is, this is my last Apple.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- jsz0 15y ago
  and my OS is now two versions out of date, since Apple stopped supporting it. No machine that shipped with Leopard is unable to run Lion. Only the Mac Mini 1,1 and MacBook 1,1 from early 2006 with 32bit processors are unsupported.
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    It's a Powerbook 5,5 (http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=PowerBook5,5 http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords...). Looks like it was discontinued in 2006 (?), but introduced back in 2004 -- so, older than I thought. Still, I started waaaaaay back with the Mac Plus, multiple Performas, a 4400/200, etc.; the 68k -> PPC, 8.6 -> OS X, and PPC750 -> Intel switches have all forced me to upgrade before I wanted to. Given Apple's history, I'm absolutely certain that they'll be switching their Air, at the very least, to their new A-series processors and/or IOS. I'm simply tired of the forced-upgrade cycle. I've also had this conversation on HN a couple times. It often ends in multiple people expressing surprise that I'd be interested in continuing to use such old, out-of-date hardware, or that I'd even expect to be able to. I'm not going to have that conversation again.
    - boop 15y ago
      "Looks like it was discontinued in 2006 (?), but introduced back in 2004 -- so, older than I thought." Your laptop is 5 to 7 years old - do you realize how long that is in tech years? I am not sure you can run the latest Windows OS well on a 5 - 7 year old laptop. "Intel switches have all forced me to upgrade before I wanted to." The switch to Intel processors was very gradual and not painful at all. Apple kept PPC support for many years. Why are you against the upgrades? If it is because of the cost associated with upgrading that is understandable. But the tech industry moves so fast and computer performance increases every year - do you really want to be using 5 - 7 year old technology? "I've also had this conversation on HN a couple times. It often ends in multiple people expressing surprise that I'd be interested in continuing to use such old, out-of-date hardware" Time to listen to the crowd my friend. You CAN still use your computer to access email, write, browse, communicate, play, etc. But you can't complain when it doesn't run all software or isn't the fastest.
      - quanticle 15y ago
        >You might not be able to run the latest Windows OS reliably on a 5-7 year old laptop. That's true, but, unlike with OSX, previous versions of Windows are still supported by the manufacturer and third parties. You might not be able to run Windows 7 on that hardware, but you'll certainly be able to run Windows XP. And, unlike with OSX revisions, Windows XP will be supported for several years yet. I have a Pentium 4 box with 2GB RAM that runs Windows XP reliably. Its been a solid workhorse for almost 8 years now. Before that, I was running Windows 2000 on a Pentium 2 that was 11 years old. Of course, another advantage of WinTel systems is that their hardware becomes more and more supported by Linux as they age. When XP finally reaches EOL, I plan to migrate this box to Linux and continue using it as a secondary workstation.
- sandGorgon 15y ago
  Install Ubuntu - surprisingly, they now make images which are designed to be installed on macs http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/release/ubuntu-11.04-alternate-amd64+mac.iso.torrent http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/release/ubuntu-11.0...
  - mixmastamyk 15y ago
    I'd tend to agree, but the version of compiz shipped with natty is a disaster. I'd recommend maverick, or even oneiric if possible. Or even a distro more focused on reliability.
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    Unfortunately, my laptop (model posted above) uses the older style ADB-connected trackpad, and the Linux drivers for it are poor, to say the least. I've considered updating them, but honestly haven't had the time, and since I'll replace this thing soon anyway, I probably won't bother.
- mixmastamyk 15y ago
  There's been a lot of churn (OSX, 64bit, Intel) in the Apple world the past few years, I'd be surprised if it continued at the same clip. And frequently you can install Linux once the OS ages too much. Now that I think of it, many of my old PC laptops had to have Linux put on them as well because they didn't support the latest version of Windows either. Or rather there were no updated device drivers from the manufacturer. So the issue isn't as clear looking to the future.
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    I'd honestly consider sticking with Apple, because I do really like their hardware, even for the price. But, Apple has been frustrated in the past with their processor manufacturing partners, and there is no doubt in my mind that, now that they own their own processor, they have a planned roadmap that will switch portions of their product line over to the A-series processors. I also think there are clear signs that OS X will eventually be replaced by iOS, at least in the non-server product lines. Linux is usually a good option, unfortunately there's a specific hardware configuration on my laptop that makes it nearly unusable. (ADB trackpad.) I could resolve that by buying a mouse, but ... meh. It's time to get a new machine anyway.
  - mixmastamyk 15y ago
    What kind of maniac downvotes such a comment?
- YooLi 15y ago
  Calling BS on this. I just installed Lion on my 2006 MacBook. That's a 5 year old MacBook fully supported by Lion.
- muhfuhkuh 15y ago
  Hmm a vague OS reference and the generic "Apple laptop" instead of just saying what model it is, as there haven't been that many. I have a feeling this wont be your last Apple because there probably was never a first one. Or you don't want to admit you're talking about a PPC PowerBook which is over five years old at this point.
  - wisty 15y ago
    I'm guessing it would be one of the Intel Core (not Core2) Duos - the first edition Intel Macs. Those won't work with Lion, as they are 32 bit. But it's still quite old.
Auguste 15y ago
What brand and model netbook are you using, exactly?
Auguste 15y ago
I recently bought a ThinkPad as my first laptop, but it's unfortunately got some technical issues (need to send it off for warranty). In the mean time I've been using my old ASUS Eee PC 1000HA, and I've really settled in. I'm surprised at how productive I am, despite the lack of horsepower.
mixmastamyk 15y ago
If it was on a table next to an Air under a sign that said, "free computers" which one would you grab first? Turns out $1,000 more isn't that much for a productivity tool these days; the dollar ain't what it used to be. Not to mention you'd probably get a much nicer screen and keyboard which helps a lot for coding. That said, I'm still using my trusty Sony tr2a for trips just because of inertia and that it still works fine. But I won't pretend I wouldn't rather have an Air. ;)
- Jach 15y ago
  I'd probably take the Air, try it out, decide I didn't like it or Mac, and resell it. Buy the original thing I saw, or something else cheaper and nicer, and treat myself to a large steak afterwards.
  - sjs 15y ago
    No need to try it you've already made up your mind.
    - Jach 15y ago
      Sure, but my mind has changed on things before, I like to give it the opportunity to change, so I'd probably try it. And yes, I would probably dislike it. If you had made the argument that I could resell it for more if it was sealed, I think that's a stronger reason not to try it.
  - Que 15y ago
    I have had my new Macbook Air for about 3 weeks now, I am primarily a Windows developer. Let me tell you something, after 3 weeks with Lion (with VMWare Fusion for Visual Studio) I am fairly positive I will never buy or make a PC again. I cannot explain this, these are things I never thought I would even think let alone say. The laptop boots the Android emulator and runs eclipse much faster than my primary pc which is a i7 tri-channel w/24gb ram. The gestures and infinite desktops on Lion make it so much more usable than a default Windows machine or any other Linux variant I use. I just wanted to chime in since you said >decide I didn't like it or Mac Which, trust me, if you care about productivity or are amazed by superior resource management, not liking it would simply be an unjust bias coming to fruition.
SkyMarshal 15y ago
Same, Asus EeePC 1000HE running Ubuntu Netbook Edition 10.04 like a champ. As responsive as a regular laptop for most things, and the heavy lifting I offload to AWS free tier. Everything redundantly backed up to Dropbox and SpiderOak. <3 it. Having said that, I'll probably pick up 13" Macbook Pro or Air soon to start getting into iOS dev, and have to say I do look forward to running VMs locally again, even though AWS free tier obsoletes that now.
pangram 15y ago
I had almost the exact same setup, and ended up moving to a Macbook Air recently -- basically for a nice screen and a good trackpad. It's difficult to find decent screens in the sub-$500 price range.
Cushman 15y ago
...how did you get ahold of a 120GB SSD three years ago for under $450?
- mistermann 15y ago
  This is a very good question, I'd like to know the answer myself.
  - iamelgringo 15y ago
    My bad. It was a 60 GB SSD. And, truth be told, it was a crap SSD when I bought it, and it doesn't support TRIM commands. I'm shocked it's been so stable. I did do the suggested SSD tweaks to the registry when I installed the OS. I recently bought a 120GB SSD for a server I'm building, and I've had 120GB on the brain. Sorry.
wisty 15y ago
Why the MBA is better: faster CPU (meh), waaaay better screen (the 11" is the same resolution as the 13" MBP), big trackpad, nice keyboard, and nice speakers. OK, it's also sexy, but who gives a toss? And I've been unable to find a reasonably priced PC laptop with an SSD (when I last looked, the only Sony ones with SSD are the MacBook Air clones and the top-of-the-line business and gamer models), so that means swapping a hard drive. Most people don't swap hard drives in laptops. I don't care about thinness and aluminium casing. I just care about the weight, battery, screen, keyboard, trackpad, and SSD. Apple is the only one that really delivered when I was looking, about 6 months ago.
- ugh 15y ago
  OK, it's also sexy, but who gives a toss? I do! I do! (Though I won’t ever call anything that’s not a human “sexy”. Sorry.) Don’t assume that just because you don’t care for aesthetics other people also don’t. Aesthetics is one of the most important factors whenever I buy anything and there is nothing wrong with that. (People who don’t care for aesthetics always have so much trouble understanding that, it’s actually quite funny how baffled they always are.)
  - quanticle 15y ago
    Its because they see you plunking down hard earned money and getting nothing of substance in return. For example, the laptop I'm typing this on now is a 15" Toshiba that I purchased for $650. The Macbook Pros at the time I bought this had worse specifications (in terms of CPU, RAM, disk and graphics) yet cost more than $300 more. Why should I pay $300 to get less?
    - ugh 15y ago
      Hihi. Yours is exactly the kind of reaction I’m talking about. That inability to understand is always quite funny but let me try to explain regardless. I’m perfectly happy paying money – even a lot of money – for aesthetics. Aesthetics are something of substance for me. Specifications are only one factor for me. Design (how it is built) and aesthetics (how it looks and feels), specifications and familiarity are the four most important factors I personally use when deciding what computer to buy and they all are pretty much on equal footing for me. Four years ago, I payed $500 more (compared to a Dell laptop with similar specifications) for my MacBook Pro to get more (much better design and better aesthetics). You might be able to better understand me if you think about something where for you personally aesthetics are an important factor, something you are willing to pay money for. I would be very surprised if there isn’t something like that for you. Maybe office chairs? Cars? Curtains? Bikes? Whatever it is, how you feel about that is how I feel about computers. I really don’t want to convince you of that view. There is no right or wrong answer to this issue. Some care for aesthetics more, some care less. (Also: Some like Apple’s aesthetic, some don’t.) There is nothing wrong with all of that, just understand that not everyone shares your view.
r00fus 15y ago
Sorry, three years ago it was impossible to find dual core SSD based net books for that price... Care to tell us what model and where you bought this wonder of engineering in 2008? Something doesn't add up.

thaumaturgy 15y ago

Meanwhile, my main system is an Apple laptop which is not much older ... and my OS is now two versions out of date, since Apple stopped supporting it. The set of software I can run on it is becoming more and more limited, as more developers give up supporting my terribly antiquated operating system and hardware, and move on to the current thing. This is the third time this has happened to me. I don't care if PC makers can or cannot keep up with Apple. All I know is, this is my last Apple.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
jsz0 15y ago
and my OS is now two versions out of date, since Apple stopped supporting it. No machine that shipped with Leopard is unable to run Lion. Only the Mac Mini 1,1 and MacBook 1,1 from early 2006 with 32bit processors are unsupported.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  It's a Powerbook 5,5 (http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=PowerBook5,5 http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords...). Looks like it was discontinued in 2006 (?), but introduced back in 2004 -- so, older than I thought. Still, I started waaaaaay back with the Mac Plus, multiple Performas, a 4400/200, etc.; the 68k -> PPC, 8.6 -> OS X, and PPC750 -> Intel switches have all forced me to upgrade before I wanted to. Given Apple's history, I'm absolutely certain that they'll be switching their Air, at the very least, to their new A-series processors and/or IOS. I'm simply tired of the forced-upgrade cycle. I've also had this conversation on HN a couple times. It often ends in multiple people expressing surprise that I'd be interested in continuing to use such old, out-of-date hardware, or that I'd even expect to be able to. I'm not going to have that conversation again.
  - boop 15y ago
    "Looks like it was discontinued in 2006 (?), but introduced back in 2004 -- so, older than I thought." Your laptop is 5 to 7 years old - do you realize how long that is in tech years? I am not sure you can run the latest Windows OS well on a 5 - 7 year old laptop. "Intel switches have all forced me to upgrade before I wanted to." The switch to Intel processors was very gradual and not painful at all. Apple kept PPC support for many years. Why are you against the upgrades? If it is because of the cost associated with upgrading that is understandable. But the tech industry moves so fast and computer performance increases every year - do you really want to be using 5 - 7 year old technology? "I've also had this conversation on HN a couple times. It often ends in multiple people expressing surprise that I'd be interested in continuing to use such old, out-of-date hardware" Time to listen to the crowd my friend. You CAN still use your computer to access email, write, browse, communicate, play, etc. But you can't complain when it doesn't run all software or isn't the fastest.
    - quanticle 15y ago
      >You might not be able to run the latest Windows OS reliably on a 5-7 year old laptop. That's true, but, unlike with OSX, previous versions of Windows are still supported by the manufacturer and third parties. You might not be able to run Windows 7 on that hardware, but you'll certainly be able to run Windows XP. And, unlike with OSX revisions, Windows XP will be supported for several years yet. I have a Pentium 4 box with 2GB RAM that runs Windows XP reliably. Its been a solid workhorse for almost 8 years now. Before that, I was running Windows 2000 on a Pentium 2 that was 11 years old. Of course, another advantage of WinTel systems is that their hardware becomes more and more supported by Linux as they age. When XP finally reaches EOL, I plan to migrate this box to Linux and continue using it as a secondary workstation.
sandGorgon 15y ago
Install Ubuntu - surprisingly, they now make images which are designed to be installed on macs http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/release/ubuntu-11.04-alternate-amd64+mac.iso.torrent http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/release/ubuntu-11.0...
- mixmastamyk 15y ago
  I'd tend to agree, but the version of compiz shipped with natty is a disaster. I'd recommend maverick, or even oneiric if possible. Or even a distro more focused on reliability.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  Unfortunately, my laptop (model posted above) uses the older style ADB-connected trackpad, and the Linux drivers for it are poor, to say the least. I've considered updating them, but honestly haven't had the time, and since I'll replace this thing soon anyway, I probably won't bother.
mixmastamyk 15y ago
There's been a lot of churn (OSX, 64bit, Intel) in the Apple world the past few years, I'd be surprised if it continued at the same clip. And frequently you can install Linux once the OS ages too much. Now that I think of it, many of my old PC laptops had to have Linux put on them as well because they didn't support the latest version of Windows either. Or rather there were no updated device drivers from the manufacturer. So the issue isn't as clear looking to the future.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  I'd honestly consider sticking with Apple, because I do really like their hardware, even for the price. But, Apple has been frustrated in the past with their processor manufacturing partners, and there is no doubt in my mind that, now that they own their own processor, they have a planned roadmap that will switch portions of their product line over to the A-series processors. I also think there are clear signs that OS X will eventually be replaced by iOS, at least in the non-server product lines. Linux is usually a good option, unfortunately there's a specific hardware configuration on my laptop that makes it nearly unusable. (ADB trackpad.) I could resolve that by buying a mouse, but ... meh. It's time to get a new machine anyway.
- mixmastamyk 15y ago
  What kind of maniac downvotes such a comment?
YooLi 15y ago
Calling BS on this. I just installed Lion on my 2006 MacBook. That's a 5 year old MacBook fully supported by Lion.
muhfuhkuh 15y ago
Hmm a vague OS reference and the generic "Apple laptop" instead of just saying what model it is, as there haven't been that many. I have a feeling this wont be your last Apple because there probably was never a first one. Or you don't want to admit you're talking about a PPC PowerBook which is over five years old at this point.
- wisty 15y ago
  I'm guessing it would be one of the Intel Core (not Core2) Duos - the first edition Intel Macs. Those won't work with Lion, as they are 32 bit. But it's still quite old.

Auguste 15y ago

What brand and model netbook are you using, exactly?

Auguste 15y ago

I recently bought a ThinkPad as my first laptop, but it's unfortunately got some technical issues (need to send it off for warranty). In the mean time I've been using my old ASUS Eee PC 1000HA, and I've really settled in. I'm surprised at how productive I am, despite the lack of horsepower.

mixmastamyk 15y ago

If it was on a table next to an Air under a sign that said, "free computers" which one would you grab first? Turns out $1,000 more isn't that much for a productivity tool these days; the dollar ain't what it used to be. Not to mention you'd probably get a much nicer screen and keyboard which helps a lot for coding. That said, I'm still using my trusty Sony tr2a for trips just because of inertia and that it still works fine. But I won't pretend I wouldn't rather have an Air. ;)

Jach 15y ago
I'd probably take the Air, try it out, decide I didn't like it or Mac, and resell it. Buy the original thing I saw, or something else cheaper and nicer, and treat myself to a large steak afterwards.
- sjs 15y ago
  No need to try it you've already made up your mind.
  - Jach 15y ago
    Sure, but my mind has changed on things before, I like to give it the opportunity to change, so I'd probably try it. And yes, I would probably dislike it. If you had made the argument that I could resell it for more if it was sealed, I think that's a stronger reason not to try it.
- Que 15y ago
  I have had my new Macbook Air for about 3 weeks now, I am primarily a Windows developer. Let me tell you something, after 3 weeks with Lion (with VMWare Fusion for Visual Studio) I am fairly positive I will never buy or make a PC again. I cannot explain this, these are things I never thought I would even think let alone say. The laptop boots the Android emulator and runs eclipse much faster than my primary pc which is a i7 tri-channel w/24gb ram. The gestures and infinite desktops on Lion make it so much more usable than a default Windows machine or any other Linux variant I use. I just wanted to chime in since you said >decide I didn't like it or Mac Which, trust me, if you care about productivity or are amazed by superior resource management, not liking it would simply be an unjust bias coming to fruition.

SkyMarshal 15y ago

Same, Asus EeePC 1000HE running Ubuntu Netbook Edition 10.04 like a champ. As responsive as a regular laptop for most things, and the heavy lifting I offload to AWS free tier. Everything redundantly backed up to Dropbox and SpiderOak. <3 it. Having said that, I'll probably pick up 13" Macbook Pro or Air soon to start getting into iOS dev, and have to say I do look forward to running VMs locally again, even though AWS free tier obsoletes that now.

pangram 15y ago

I had almost the exact same setup, and ended up moving to a Macbook Air recently -- basically for a nice screen and a good trackpad. It's difficult to find decent screens in the sub-$500 price range.

Cushman 15y ago

...how did you get ahold of a 120GB SSD three years ago for under $450?

mistermann 15y ago
This is a very good question, I'd like to know the answer myself.
- iamelgringo 15y ago
  My bad. It was a 60 GB SSD. And, truth be told, it was a crap SSD when I bought it, and it doesn't support TRIM commands. I'm shocked it's been so stable. I did do the suggested SSD tweaks to the registry when I installed the OS. I recently bought a 120GB SSD for a server I'm building, and I've had 120GB on the brain. Sorry.

wisty 15y ago

Why the MBA is better: faster CPU (meh), waaaay better screen (the 11" is the same resolution as the 13" MBP), big trackpad, nice keyboard, and nice speakers. OK, it's also sexy, but who gives a toss? And I've been unable to find a reasonably priced PC laptop with an SSD (when I last looked, the only Sony ones with SSD are the MacBook Air clones and the top-of-the-line business and gamer models), so that means swapping a hard drive. Most people don't swap hard drives in laptops. I don't care about thinness and aluminium casing. I just care about the weight, battery, screen, keyboard, trackpad, and SSD. Apple is the only one that really delivered when I was looking, about 6 months ago.

ugh 15y ago
OK, it's also sexy, but who gives a toss? I do! I do! (Though I won’t ever call anything that’s not a human “sexy”. Sorry.) Don’t assume that just because you don’t care for aesthetics other people also don’t. Aesthetics is one of the most important factors whenever I buy anything and there is nothing wrong with that. (People who don’t care for aesthetics always have so much trouble understanding that, it’s actually quite funny how baffled they always are.)
- quanticle 15y ago
  Its because they see you plunking down hard earned money and getting nothing of substance in return. For example, the laptop I'm typing this on now is a 15" Toshiba that I purchased for $650. The Macbook Pros at the time I bought this had worse specifications (in terms of CPU, RAM, disk and graphics) yet cost more than $300 more. Why should I pay $300 to get less?
  - ugh 15y ago
    Hihi. Yours is exactly the kind of reaction I’m talking about. That inability to understand is always quite funny but let me try to explain regardless. I’m perfectly happy paying money – even a lot of money – for aesthetics. Aesthetics are something of substance for me. Specifications are only one factor for me. Design (how it is built) and aesthetics (how it looks and feels), specifications and familiarity are the four most important factors I personally use when deciding what computer to buy and they all are pretty much on equal footing for me. Four years ago, I payed $500 more (compared to a Dell laptop with similar specifications) for my MacBook Pro to get more (much better design and better aesthetics). You might be able to better understand me if you think about something where for you personally aesthetics are an important factor, something you are willing to pay money for. I would be very surprised if there isn’t something like that for you. Maybe office chairs? Cars? Curtains? Bikes? Whatever it is, how you feel about that is how I feel about computers. I really don’t want to convince you of that view. There is no right or wrong answer to this issue. Some care for aesthetics more, some care less. (Also: Some like Apple’s aesthetic, some don’t.) There is nothing wrong with all of that, just understand that not everyone shares your view.

r00fus 15y ago

Sorry, three years ago it was impossible to find dual core SSD based net books for that price... Care to tell us what model and where you bought this wonder of engineering in 2008? Something doesn't add up.