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Buy less stuff, basically. Think hard before buying something "new". You may not need it, or you may be able to find alternatives, such as hand-me-downs, secon

Buy less stuff, basically. Think hard before buying something "new". You may not need it, or you may be able to find alternatives, such as hand-me-downs, secondhand, etc.

ericd 5y ago
Local BuyNothing groups are great for this.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  Just looked into Buy Nothing. What's the advantage of using this platform vs. second-hand/thrift shops?
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    I think it's an alternative to second-hand and thrift shops, and the biggest advantage is that it is available even in areas without thrift shops. The second advantage is that you don't have to pay, so it is more likely that items will find a good home instead of being discarded. The third advantage is non-participation in the money system, if you're into that sort of thing, and also the elimination of overhead for store and inventory upkeep. One downside, of course, is that most people aren't willing to keep their "stock" around for too long, so there's limited inventory at any given time that you can browse.
  - ericd 5y ago
    It’s typically just a Facebook group of your neighbors, so “platform” might be a bit strong for what it is. Besides everything being free, I’ve found it helps build a bit of a sense of community for those who participate.
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      This is what their website [1] says: > The most direct way to participate in this amazing experiment with us is to join the BuyNothing App. [1] https://buynothingproject.org/find-a-group/ https://buynothingproject.org/find-a-group/
      - ericd 5y ago
        Ah gotcha, I heard about that, the founders sort of stepped back from the FB groups version and started trying to push a standalone app version. I'm guessing the FB groups version is still more popular/useful. Oh, also, there're a lot of plants and things that get exchanged, another difference from second hand shops.
shakezula 5y ago
You can't "buy less stuff" when the things we're talking about are necessities, often times food and critical supplies like fuel. Container ships don't just ship you game consoles and televisions. And even if you managed to reduce all private consumption to zero, commercial consumption probably makes up an order of magnitudes more than private does. It doesn't matter what YOU do, you can't change the scales that these ships operate. The only thing that will fix this is government intervention and fines that make it less cost effective to abandon the ship than to deal with the consequences.
- trangus_1985 5y ago
  But you can "buy less stuff" in general. And that will reduce your impact.
  - shakezula 5y ago
    Sure, but that has literally no impact on the incentives that created this problem in the first place. It's not related to volume or frequency, and if anything less frequent and smaller shipments might exacerbate this issue in the current system. Supply chains are counter-intuitive like that sometimes.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  You can't "buy less stuff" when the things we're talking about are necessities, often times food and critical supplies like fuel. This isn't really an excuse in e.g. USA, which produces surpluses in both of these commodities.
  - shakezula 5y ago
    Those surpluses are mostly exported, and besides that you're missing the forest for the trees. Individual action, even if completely efficient and pervasive, would not be enough to fix this problem.
    - jessaustin 5y ago
plausibledeny 5y ago
How does that help the people in the shipping industry? Let's say you did reduce shipping and therefore there were fewer shipping jobs, the people currently doing this work would lose these jobs and have to find other work. Something which would be even less attractive than shipping. How's that help them?
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  It doesn't help them either way, whether you buy stuff or not. However, it does help you not be comlicit to their treatment.
  - plausibledeny 5y ago
    But clearly for many of them this bad choice is their best option (unfortunately). So the goal isn't to improve their lives but to assuage our guilt? Companies that use these services could exert pressure for better conditions, just like some have done with other companies in their supply chain.
    - forgotmypw17 5y ago
      I think there is a difference between guilt and complicity, though they are related. I have somewhat limited agency in this world, limited to the little bit of money I spend, the movement of my arms and legs, the words I speak, the things I look at, and my thoughts and intentions.
  - Igelau 5y ago
    Except the companies are doing this because they are already strapped for cash. Willingly trying to avoid global shipping would actually make you more complicit.
    - inawarminister 5y ago
      Not really, in a free market consumers directing their consumption away from a sector does not make them complicit in the abuses or bankruptcy of that sector. They don't have direct relationship to that sector anymore, after all.
m463 5y ago
wouldn't that create a recession or depression?
- PoachedSausage 5y ago
  We could go for ecological and climate collapse instead. I hope there is a middle way.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  Is an economic recession or depression necessarily bad, if everyone's basic needs are still accounted for? If the economy is in a state of overproduction and extreme waste while the effects are the burn-up of our own habitat, shouldn't it tune down a bit anyway?

Buy less stuff, basically. Think hard before buying something "new". You may not need it, or you may be able to find alternatives, such as hand-me-downs, secondhand, etc.

ericd 5y ago

Local BuyNothing groups are great for this.

Tijdreiziger 5y ago
Just looked into Buy Nothing. What's the advantage of using this platform vs. second-hand/thrift shops?
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  I think it's an alternative to second-hand and thrift shops, and the biggest advantage is that it is available even in areas without thrift shops. The second advantage is that you don't have to pay, so it is more likely that items will find a good home instead of being discarded. The third advantage is non-participation in the money system, if you're into that sort of thing, and also the elimination of overhead for store and inventory upkeep. One downside, of course, is that most people aren't willing to keep their "stock" around for too long, so there's limited inventory at any given time that you can browse.
- ericd 5y ago
  It’s typically just a Facebook group of your neighbors, so “platform” might be a bit strong for what it is. Besides everything being free, I’ve found it helps build a bit of a sense of community for those who participate.
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    This is what their website [1] says: > The most direct way to participate in this amazing experiment with us is to join the BuyNothing App. [1] https://buynothingproject.org/find-a-group/ https://buynothingproject.org/find-a-group/
    - ericd 5y ago
      Ah gotcha, I heard about that, the founders sort of stepped back from the FB groups version and started trying to push a standalone app version. I'm guessing the FB groups version is still more popular/useful. Oh, also, there're a lot of plants and things that get exchanged, another difference from second hand shops.

shakezula 5y ago

You can't "buy less stuff" when the things we're talking about are necessities, often times food and critical supplies like fuel. Container ships don't just ship you game consoles and televisions. And even if you managed to reduce all private consumption to zero, commercial consumption probably makes up an order of magnitudes more than private does. It doesn't matter what YOU do, you can't change the scales that these ships operate. The only thing that will fix this is government intervention and fines that make it less cost effective to abandon the ship than to deal with the consequences.

trangus_1985 5y ago
But you can "buy less stuff" in general. And that will reduce your impact.
- shakezula 5y ago
  Sure, but that has literally no impact on the incentives that created this problem in the first place. It's not related to volume or frequency, and if anything less frequent and smaller shipments might exacerbate this issue in the current system. Supply chains are counter-intuitive like that sometimes.
jessaustin 5y ago
You can't "buy less stuff" when the things we're talking about are necessities, often times food and critical supplies like fuel. This isn't really an excuse in e.g. USA, which produces surpluses in both of these commodities.
- shakezula 5y ago
  Those surpluses are mostly exported, and besides that you're missing the forest for the trees. Individual action, even if completely efficient and pervasive, would not be enough to fix this problem.
  - jessaustin 5y ago

plausibledeny 5y ago

How does that help the people in the shipping industry? Let's say you did reduce shipping and therefore there were fewer shipping jobs, the people currently doing this work would lose these jobs and have to find other work. Something which would be even less attractive than shipping. How's that help them?

forgotmypw17 5y ago
It doesn't help them either way, whether you buy stuff or not. However, it does help you not be comlicit to their treatment.
- plausibledeny 5y ago
  But clearly for many of them this bad choice is their best option (unfortunately). So the goal isn't to improve their lives but to assuage our guilt? Companies that use these services could exert pressure for better conditions, just like some have done with other companies in their supply chain.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    I think there is a difference between guilt and complicity, though they are related. I have somewhat limited agency in this world, limited to the little bit of money I spend, the movement of my arms and legs, the words I speak, the things I look at, and my thoughts and intentions.
- Igelau 5y ago
  Except the companies are doing this because they are already strapped for cash. Willingly trying to avoid global shipping would actually make you more complicit.
  - inawarminister 5y ago
    Not really, in a free market consumers directing their consumption away from a sector does not make them complicit in the abuses or bankruptcy of that sector. They don't have direct relationship to that sector anymore, after all.

m463 5y ago

wouldn't that create a recession or depression?

PoachedSausage 5y ago
We could go for ecological and climate collapse instead. I hope there is a middle way.
forgotmypw17 5y ago
Is an economic recession or depression necessarily bad, if everyone's basic needs are still accounted for? If the economy is in a state of overproduction and extreme waste while the effects are the burn-up of our own habitat, shouldn't it tune down a bit anyway?