6 ms·

this is also common on cruise ships and naval around the world. - officers are european, with more lately east european. Then the staff or A-B are usually fili

this is also common on cruise ships and naval around the world. - officers are european, with more lately east european. Then the staff or A-B are usually filipino, Vietmanese or Indonesian. Its more salary then back where they're from - and it has interesting cultural changes in their socities. In the philippines, these are called "OFW" families. daddy is never home, but because he works "abroad" his family can have newer stuff, be in a better neighborhood, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Filipino_Worker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Filipino_Worker

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hunterb123 5y ago
this is common amongst all first world industries. whether it's farming, cruises, factories, transportation, etc. not supporting it, but that's the current setup.
- smabie 5y ago
  Why wouldn't you support it? Seems like a win-win for most parties involved.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    It's not a matter of supporting hiring people of different nationalities. It's supporting the current conditions surrounding these employees. If these workers are not of a legal status, then they are easily abused (working conditions/below minimum pay/etc). These workers are more fearful of being deported than the abuse which means they do not report any of the wrongs that may be occurring. To me, this says much more about the employer.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Directly, it usually it leads to poor working conditions when you have non-residential workers, especially ones in a quasi-legal status. For factories, you sometimes have the problem of the factory shutting down after the locals become dependent on it. For migrant working, it's hard on the children of the family and it causes tension between the families not participating. Philosophically, one could argue it's exploitation and is very close to slavery except the small amount of pay. Until this type of work is extinct I don't think one can morally campaign for UBI can you? Currently this type of work is apparently necessary so we've accepted that the system cannot either pay the more wealthy citizen's wage nor up the wage of the foreign workers. Is there a demand to up the wage of these non-represented workers that make far below minimum wage? Is there a demand to up the wage of minimal wage for citizens and are the foreign workers mentioned? Is there a demand for UBI for citizens to not work at all while foreign workers pick up the slack?
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      UBI is income redistribution. It will always be immoral for those paying to support others who are not working. What you describe is not exploitation, people are working of their own will and that's the best deal they can have. When you'll eliminate those jobs with income redistribution and minimum wage those people (especially if they're coming in from a different, poorer country) will just be out of a job.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        A prostitute can be exploited by a pimp even though it's her own will to work vs be homeless under a bridge. It's the "best deal she has". It may be the best option for these people, but you are exploiting their poverty for your profit, otherwise you'd pay the minimum wage. It's the people who cry minimum wage hikes while exploiting this business that make my blood boil. I agree about UBI, it's immoral, period.
        UnpossibleJim 5y ago
        Our government has bailed out banks multiple times, injected money into the stock market, the airlines, a constant state of war that has lasted since Bush one that has cost trillions of dollars... but UBI that can have its cost reduced by drawing its budget from social security, disability and welfare, that's the one that makes your blood boil?
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Many things can make my blood boil, but this thing was the topic. (cough whataboutism cough) But yes people supporting near slave labor while also wanting UBI does make my blood boil, lazy fucks. As does child-trafficking, bank bailouts, defense contract laundering, nepotism, etc. Gotta have ice cold veins to counteract all that blood boiling bullshit in the world, dontcha.
        UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  - forgotmyoldname 5y ago
    I’m 100% against having a ruling upper class and hard labor lower class, especially one determined by nationality. It’s disgusting and something we left behind in the 19th century until international capitalism reinvented it.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> this is also common on cruise ships and naval around the world. - officers are european, with more lately east european. > Then the staff or A-B are usually filipino, Vietmanese or Indonesian. Merchant marine, sure, but naval? Wouldn’t both officers and crew be the nationality of the force in the vast majority of cases?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

hunterb123 5y ago

this is common amongst all first world industries. whether it's farming, cruises, factories, transportation, etc. not supporting it, but that's the current setup.

smabie 5y ago
Why wouldn't you support it? Seems like a win-win for most parties involved.
- dylan604 5y ago
  It's not a matter of supporting hiring people of different nationalities. It's supporting the current conditions surrounding these employees. If these workers are not of a legal status, then they are easily abused (working conditions/below minimum pay/etc). These workers are more fearful of being deported than the abuse which means they do not report any of the wrongs that may be occurring. To me, this says much more about the employer.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Directly, it usually it leads to poor working conditions when you have non-residential workers, especially ones in a quasi-legal status. For factories, you sometimes have the problem of the factory shutting down after the locals become dependent on it. For migrant working, it's hard on the children of the family and it causes tension between the families not participating. Philosophically, one could argue it's exploitation and is very close to slavery except the small amount of pay. Until this type of work is extinct I don't think one can morally campaign for UBI can you? Currently this type of work is apparently necessary so we've accepted that the system cannot either pay the more wealthy citizen's wage nor up the wage of the foreign workers. Is there a demand to up the wage of these non-represented workers that make far below minimum wage? Is there a demand to up the wage of minimal wage for citizens and are the foreign workers mentioned? Is there a demand for UBI for citizens to not work at all while foreign workers pick up the slack?
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    UBI is income redistribution. It will always be immoral for those paying to support others who are not working. What you describe is not exploitation, people are working of their own will and that's the best deal they can have. When you'll eliminate those jobs with income redistribution and minimum wage those people (especially if they're coming in from a different, poorer country) will just be out of a job.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      A prostitute can be exploited by a pimp even though it's her own will to work vs be homeless under a bridge. It's the "best deal she has". It may be the best option for these people, but you are exploiting their poverty for your profit, otherwise you'd pay the minimum wage. It's the people who cry minimum wage hikes while exploiting this business that make my blood boil. I agree about UBI, it's immoral, period.
      - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
        Our government has bailed out banks multiple times, injected money into the stock market, the airlines, a constant state of war that has lasted since Bush one that has cost trillions of dollars... but UBI that can have its cost reduced by drawing its budget from social security, disability and welfare, that's the one that makes your blood boil?
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Many things can make my blood boil, but this thing was the topic. (cough whataboutism cough) But yes people supporting near slave labor while also wanting UBI does make my blood boil, lazy fucks. As does child-trafficking, bank bailouts, defense contract laundering, nepotism, etc. Gotta have ice cold veins to counteract all that blood boiling bullshit in the world, dontcha.
        UnpossibleJim 5y ago
- forgotmyoldname 5y ago
  I’m 100% against having a ruling upper class and hard labor lower class, especially one determined by nationality. It’s disgusting and something we left behind in the 19th century until international capitalism reinvented it.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> this is also common on cruise ships and naval around the world. - officers are european, with more lately east european. > Then the staff or A-B are usually filipino, Vietmanese or Indonesian. Merchant marine, sure, but naval? Wouldn’t both officers and crew be the nationality of the force in the vast majority of cases?