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>"The goal posts will always move" ... you're right about that! I think I remember, two weeks to stop the spread The COVID-19 pandemic is an unprecedented even

>"The goal posts will always move" ... you're right about that! I think I remember, two weeks to stop the spread The COVID-19 pandemic is an unprecedented event in our lifetime. Is it better to have a leader who modifies her approach as new information becomes available, or one who stubbornly sticks to the same plan when it has clearly failed?

hunterb123 5y ago
ah yes, adaptation to science when I do it, goal post moving when others do it. maybe those other people adapted to new facts coming in such as side effects of the vaccine and already contracting covid and decided not to get it.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  >ah yes, adaptation to science when I do it, goal post moving when others do it. Parent mentioned moving goal posts, not I. >maybe those other people adapted to new facts coming in such as side effects of the vaccine and already contracting covid and decided not to get it. The facts show that vaccine side effects are generally mild, vaccination reduces transmission by 5X or more and that natural immunity offers inferior protection to vaccination. If you have convincing evidence showing otherwise, I encourage you to present it.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    natural immunity offers greater protection than the vaccine, you're thinking of combined vaccine + natural immunity. vaccine side effects range from mild to death. https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      OpenVaers is a public reporting tool - anyone can type data into there. Unfiltered, it is basically junk, and claiming it as data against the COVID-19 vaccines is dishonest scaremongering. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-viral-posts-misuse-vaers-data-to-make-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccines/ https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-viral-posts-misus...
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Hospitals directly report to VAERS as well. We've had this system in place for a reason, you need a way to track anecdotal reactions in individuals that suffer extreme reactions or death that were otherwise healthy. There's countless instances of healthy people dying right after the shot, doesn't matter if you wish it away. Yes it may be a small amount percentage wise, but the more you scale the more absolute deaths you get.
        SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > Hospitals directly report to VAERS as well. We've had this system in place for a reason Correct, and this is not the reason. You are misusing it. > There's countless instances of healthy people dying right after the shot, Calling BS on that, it's not "Countless", far from it. And it needs to be compared to the - far worse - risks of COVID. This statement is dishonest scaremongering.
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      >natural immunity offers greater protection than the vaccine, you're thinking of combined vaccine + natural immunity. No. There is no consensus on the duration of natural immunity, nor do we know how effective it is against variants. We do have confidence in the duration of vaccine-derived immunity and its performance against existing variants (https://www.newsweek.com/natural-covid-immunity-delta-variant-protect-vaccines-1635216 https://www.newsweek.com/natural-covid-immunity-delta-varian...). >vaccine side effects range from mild to death You've not provided convincing evidence of this. From the VAERS website: VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Maybe someone should investigate each of these reports :) Can I ask you why you think we have the VAERS system?
        jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        These reports are investigated. The number of deaths reported to VAERS is inconsistent with results of clinical trials for the major COVID vaccines. VAERS was created as a provision of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986. The NCVIA was enacted because manufacturers of childhood vaccines could not obtain robust liability insurance.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        > These reports are investigated. The number of deaths reported to VAERS is inconsistent with results of clinical trials for the major COVID vaccines. A clinical trial !== an investigation into the report. Do you know what the investigation for each of these reports concluded or are you assuming they were "inaccurate". Have you read these detailed submissions of VAERS? It's very hard to conclude anything other than the vaccine does have adverse effects in some people.

hunterb123 5y ago

ah yes, adaptation to science when I do it, goal post moving when others do it. maybe those other people adapted to new facts coming in such as side effects of the vaccine and already contracting covid and decided not to get it.

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
>ah yes, adaptation to science when I do it, goal post moving when others do it. Parent mentioned moving goal posts, not I. >maybe those other people adapted to new facts coming in such as side effects of the vaccine and already contracting covid and decided not to get it. The facts show that vaccine side effects are generally mild, vaccination reduces transmission by 5X or more and that natural immunity offers inferior protection to vaccination. If you have convincing evidence showing otherwise, I encourage you to present it.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  natural immunity offers greater protection than the vaccine, you're thinking of combined vaccine + natural immunity. vaccine side effects range from mild to death. https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    OpenVaers is a public reporting tool - anyone can type data into there. Unfiltered, it is basically junk, and claiming it as data against the COVID-19 vaccines is dishonest scaremongering. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-viral-posts-misuse-vaers-data-to-make-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccines/ https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-viral-posts-misus...
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Hospitals directly report to VAERS as well. We've had this system in place for a reason, you need a way to track anecdotal reactions in individuals that suffer extreme reactions or death that were otherwise healthy. There's countless instances of healthy people dying right after the shot, doesn't matter if you wish it away. Yes it may be a small amount percentage wise, but the more you scale the more absolute deaths you get.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > Hospitals directly report to VAERS as well. We've had this system in place for a reason Correct, and this is not the reason. You are misusing it. > There's countless instances of healthy people dying right after the shot, Calling BS on that, it's not "Countless", far from it. And it needs to be compared to the - far worse - risks of COVID. This statement is dishonest scaremongering.
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    >natural immunity offers greater protection than the vaccine, you're thinking of combined vaccine + natural immunity. No. There is no consensus on the duration of natural immunity, nor do we know how effective it is against variants. We do have confidence in the duration of vaccine-derived immunity and its performance against existing variants (https://www.newsweek.com/natural-covid-immunity-delta-variant-protect-vaccines-1635216 https://www.newsweek.com/natural-covid-immunity-delta-varian...). >vaccine side effects range from mild to death You've not provided convincing evidence of this. From the VAERS website: VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Maybe someone should investigate each of these reports :) Can I ask you why you think we have the VAERS system?
      - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        These reports are investigated. The number of deaths reported to VAERS is inconsistent with results of clinical trials for the major COVID vaccines. VAERS was created as a provision of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986. The NCVIA was enacted because manufacturers of childhood vaccines could not obtain robust liability insurance.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        > These reports are investigated. The number of deaths reported to VAERS is inconsistent with results of clinical trials for the major COVID vaccines. A clinical trial !== an investigation into the report. Do you know what the investigation for each of these reports concluded or are you assuming they were "inaccurate". Have you read these detailed submissions of VAERS? It's very hard to conclude anything other than the vaccine does have adverse effects in some people.