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>let's also round up all the fatties and fire them until they work out Surely you realize this is a false equivalency. One cannot 'contract' obesity from someo

>let's also round up all the fatties and fire them until they work out Surely you realize this is a false equivalency. One cannot 'contract' obesity from someone else in an elevator.

hunterb123 5y ago
that wasn't the premise. fat people can (and do) take up an ICU bed that could go to healthy people. if it were a proper vaccine, the vaccinated wouldn't be able to contract covid at all.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  > if it were a proper vaccine, the vaccinated wouldn't be able to contract covid at all. And if COVID would stop mutating, we wouldn’t have a vaccine be (possibly) less effective as time goes on. Surely you realize that a vaccine is not (and never was or is) 100% effective?
  - angelzen 5y ago
    mRNA covid vaccines are, sadly, in a class of their own. Compare with, e.g., polio vaccine: > Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective. > It is not known how long people who received IPV will be immune to poliovirus, but they are most likely protected for many years after a complete series of IPV. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-dur...
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      Polio is also far less widespread than COVID-19
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        One of the reasons for that is that Polio is still vaccinated against, very thoroughly. Because it's a terrible disease. Seriously, check the vaccines that a standard UK person gets: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/nhs-vaccinations-and-when-to-have-them/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/nhs-vaccinations-... All the "6-in-1", "4-in-1", "3-in-1" include anti-tetanus, diphtheria and Polio shots. A 15-year-old UK citizen has had Five doses against those diseases in this standard schedule. But these diseases are not a problem any more, not widespread? Yeah, vaccination is the reason for that.
        angelzen 5y ago
        Absolutely. Note that all the standard schedule vaccines offer long term, possibly life-time protection against both infection and severe cases. Alas, there are no signs that the current crop of covid vaccines are capable of the same performance. The problem of long term effective vaccines against sars (and flu btw) is still wide open. For example, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world, Singapore, is now experiencing a covid spike with cases in the same order as Texas or Florida, the supposed bastions of stubborn resistance to vaccines. Deaths are still way behind, so those vaccines are good for something.
        SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > Alas, there are no signs that the current crop of covid vaccines are capable of the same (long term effective ) performance. That's quite possible, and we'll know more in a few years. Israel has good stats after a 3rd shot within 6 months of the second ( https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1444675839904210951 https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1444675839904210951 ), but we don't know if that will be the end of it. However the saying is: "you go to war with the army that you have now, not the army that you want to have". We're very fortunate to have fairly effective COVID-19 vaccines within a year of the pandemic starting - in early 2020 we did not expect vaccines so soon. We should use them as well as we can. Dismissing the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine for not being 100% effective or everlasting after 1 or 2 shots, when we still give 5 Polio shots, decades later, is lunacy.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  >if it were a proper vaccine, the vaccinated wouldn't be able to contract covid at all. What exactly does this mean? Some vaccines confer sterilizing immunity, some confer non-sterilizing immunity. Both classes of vaccines have been used successfully in humans and animals to control disease outbreaks for decades. It's difficult to confer sterilizing immunity to coronaviruses as they are more likely to mutate. That doesn't mean the vaccines 'don't work.'
- mtmail 5y ago
  > if it were a proper vaccine That's moving goal posts. There won't be a 100.00% vaccine at any time.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    so you support rounding up the fatties as they are the #1 risk right? since we don't have a 100% vaccine we should do everything we can. next step, everyone can have a 1x1 jail cell to be 100% safe.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      It's a gish gallop through the greatest hits of the antivaxers. You can still get it so what's the point of vaccination! Fat people! Maybe there are side effects! Vaers! Liberty! Not a proper vaccine! Whenever one is countered, just swap to the next one, and cycle back to the first when you run out. We've seen all of these before. It's very tiresome and a bit sad.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        One usually cycles through retorts when one is confronted with the same propaganda! > Oh those pesky anti-vaxxers taking up ICU beds, that's how they harm vaccinated! Ok so we should make sure all the risks of covid are minimized, lets encourage the reducing of the leading morbidity of covid and other diseases by forcing people to eat healthy. It seems to me people like you are more accepting to force people to inject something into them than you are to force people to exercise or eat right. Both are appalling, one you see is appalling, the other you do not. If the vaccine works for you, great. Unvaccinated people are not a risk, the ICU is not going to crumble and there are much more dangerous things in life to give up your freedoms for. Just incase your precious ICU fills up, first you could kick out the "anti-vaxxers", then the fatties, then anyone with a criminal background, next we can have a government panel decide who does or doesn't get care!
        SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

>let's also round up all the fatties and fire them until they work out Surely you realize this is a false equivalency. One cannot 'contract' obesity from someone else in an elevator.

hunterb123 5y ago

that wasn't the premise. fat people can (and do) take up an ICU bed that could go to healthy people. if it were a proper vaccine, the vaccinated wouldn't be able to contract covid at all.

colejohnson66 5y ago
> if it were a proper vaccine, the vaccinated wouldn't be able to contract covid at all. And if COVID would stop mutating, we wouldn’t have a vaccine be (possibly) less effective as time goes on. Surely you realize that a vaccine is not (and never was or is) 100% effective?
- angelzen 5y ago
  mRNA covid vaccines are, sadly, in a class of their own. Compare with, e.g., polio vaccine: > Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective. > It is not known how long people who received IPV will be immune to poliovirus, but they are most likely protected for many years after a complete series of IPV. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-dur...
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    Polio is also far less widespread than COVID-19
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      One of the reasons for that is that Polio is still vaccinated against, very thoroughly. Because it's a terrible disease. Seriously, check the vaccines that a standard UK person gets: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/nhs-vaccinations-and-when-to-have-them/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/nhs-vaccinations-... All the "6-in-1", "4-in-1", "3-in-1" include anti-tetanus, diphtheria and Polio shots. A 15-year-old UK citizen has had Five doses against those diseases in this standard schedule. But these diseases are not a problem any more, not widespread? Yeah, vaccination is the reason for that.
      - angelzen 5y ago
        Absolutely. Note that all the standard schedule vaccines offer long term, possibly life-time protection against both infection and severe cases. Alas, there are no signs that the current crop of covid vaccines are capable of the same performance. The problem of long term effective vaccines against sars (and flu btw) is still wide open. For example, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world, Singapore, is now experiencing a covid spike with cases in the same order as Texas or Florida, the supposed bastions of stubborn resistance to vaccines. Deaths are still way behind, so those vaccines are good for something.
        SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > Alas, there are no signs that the current crop of covid vaccines are capable of the same (long term effective ) performance. That's quite possible, and we'll know more in a few years. Israel has good stats after a 3rd shot within 6 months of the second ( https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1444675839904210951 https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1444675839904210951 ), but we don't know if that will be the end of it. However the saying is: "you go to war with the army that you have now, not the army that you want to have". We're very fortunate to have fairly effective COVID-19 vaccines within a year of the pandemic starting - in early 2020 we did not expect vaccines so soon. We should use them as well as we can. Dismissing the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine for not being 100% effective or everlasting after 1 or 2 shots, when we still give 5 Polio shots, decades later, is lunacy.
jasonlaramburu 5y ago
>if it were a proper vaccine, the vaccinated wouldn't be able to contract covid at all. What exactly does this mean? Some vaccines confer sterilizing immunity, some confer non-sterilizing immunity. Both classes of vaccines have been used successfully in humans and animals to control disease outbreaks for decades. It's difficult to confer sterilizing immunity to coronaviruses as they are more likely to mutate. That doesn't mean the vaccines 'don't work.'
mtmail 5y ago
> if it were a proper vaccine That's moving goal posts. There won't be a 100.00% vaccine at any time.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  so you support rounding up the fatties as they are the #1 risk right? since we don't have a 100% vaccine we should do everything we can. next step, everyone can have a 1x1 jail cell to be 100% safe.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    It's a gish gallop through the greatest hits of the antivaxers. You can still get it so what's the point of vaccination! Fat people! Maybe there are side effects! Vaers! Liberty! Not a proper vaccine! Whenever one is countered, just swap to the next one, and cycle back to the first when you run out. We've seen all of these before. It's very tiresome and a bit sad.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      One usually cycles through retorts when one is confronted with the same propaganda! > Oh those pesky anti-vaxxers taking up ICU beds, that's how they harm vaccinated! Ok so we should make sure all the risks of covid are minimized, lets encourage the reducing of the leading morbidity of covid and other diseases by forcing people to eat healthy. It seems to me people like you are more accepting to force people to inject something into them than you are to force people to exercise or eat right. Both are appalling, one you see is appalling, the other you do not. If the vaccine works for you, great. Unvaccinated people are not a risk, the ICU is not going to crumble and there are much more dangerous things in life to give up your freedoms for. Just incase your precious ICU fills up, first you could kick out the "anti-vaxxers", then the fatties, then anyone with a criminal background, next we can have a government panel decide who does or doesn't get care!
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago