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>So what are the risks of unvaccinated people again? The data is clear that unvaccinated people are at least 5X more likely to contract and spread COVID-19[1].

>So what are the risks of unvaccinated people again? The data is clear that unvaccinated people are at least 5X more likely to contract and spread COVID-19[1]. So the fewer unvaccinated people in the workplace, the less likely an outbreak becomes. [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/cdc-unvaccinated-5-times-more-likely-get-covid-19 https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/cdc-unva...

hunterb123 5y ago
what are the chances those people still haven't contracted covid? why ignore natural immunity? are you okay with this new normal, comply or die? (an economic death)
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  I believe that American workers have a right to a safe workplace. It is a fact that the federal government has the power to set and regulate workplace safety standards. This is not new.
  - listenallyall 5y ago
    So why not continue testing unvaccinated people, and allow them to work as long as the test comes back negative? Why throw a blanket over an entire group, even when the majority of them are perfectly healthy?
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      >So why not continue testing unvaccinated people, and allow them to work as long as the test comes back negative? They can. The US mandate allows unvaccinated workers to either get vaccinated or submit to weekly testing.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > why ignore natural immunity? Why avoid vaccination, after infection? Apparently it's quite beneficial to get vaccinated then.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    risk cost analysis. if you have enough protection already, why add more at the risk of a potential side effect, that's up to the individual. why not exercise, why not inject yourself with x, why not do this or that. why don't you just get in the train. why not force everyone to not be fat while we're at it. we're already forcing people to show their papers, why not force everyone to have a vaccine for every disease? why not just keep everyone in a jail cell so they can't be harmed.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > risk cost analysis. Risk of vaccination is low, benefit good, seems legit. > that's up to the individual Sure, if and only if it's also up to the employer to choose as well. Individual choice without accountably for the consequences of that choice would be nice, but it's in short supply on account of the deadly pandemic. > why not force everyone to not be fat while we're at it. This is a pointless question. Do fat nurses harm patients thereby? No. > why not force everyone to have a vaccine for every disease? There are many contexts in which vaccinations are required. _shrug_ > why not just keep everyone in a jail cell so they can't be harmed. You're not making rational arguments here, just throwing emotional words around.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        vaccinated people are protected against unvaccinated people, the only argument is unvaccinated people take up ICU beds. fat people take up ICU beds for healthy people, being fat is a choice and is the #1 cause of morbidity for covid. the emotional argument is coming from the side saying everyone needs to be 100% vaccinated so we don't all die. give me liberty or give me death is not just a phrase.
listenallyall 5y ago
From the report in your link... > During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection Full vax is only 80% effective? This is quite a bit lower than what the news has been reporting, in the mid-to-high 90's
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Full vax is only 80% effective? This is quite a bit lower than what the news has been reporting, in the mid-to-high 90's mid-to-high 90s is cited as the effectiveness at preventing severe COVID or hospitalization. Effectiveness at preventing detectable infection is obviously going to be lower, because asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic infections can occur.
  - listenallyall 5y ago
    No, the CDC says Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different... "Laboratory-confirmed infection". Not severe or hospitalized.
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      You misrepresented the results of the original study as per above. The vaccine is 80% effective at preventing infection in frontline health workers (who are at elevated risk of exposure to COVID-19). It is 95% effective at preventing infection across the general population.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  >> During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection You conveniently omitted the end of the sentence you quoted. The full sentence is "During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection among frontline workers." Frontline health workers are at elevated risk of exposure to COVID-19, so it's reasonable that more of them would contract the virus, even with an effective vaccine. Did you intentionally misrepresent the results of the study by leaving this part out or was this just a careless omission?
angelzen 5y ago
I have yet to see a reasonable explanation on why UK case rates per 100k for vaccinated people are higher than unvaccinated in >30yo age groups. Whatever the reasons is, it does not match '5X more likely to contract covid'. According to the UK dataset, in 40-49 the rate of infections in vaccinated people is double the rate of infection in unvaccinated people. Yes, the data shows vaccines are effective at preventing hospitalization and death. If you are an adult, get a covid vacine, it will keep you from getting a nasty disease. It's just that the vaccines don't appear to be effective at preventing infection, and this is a major pretext in the push for mandatory vaccinations, to the point we are firing people over it (!!!) while the crowds are cheering (!!!). https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

hunterb123 5y ago

what are the chances those people still haven't contracted covid? why ignore natural immunity? are you okay with this new normal, comply or die? (an economic death)

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
I believe that American workers have a right to a safe workplace. It is a fact that the federal government has the power to set and regulate workplace safety standards. This is not new.
- listenallyall 5y ago
  So why not continue testing unvaccinated people, and allow them to work as long as the test comes back negative? Why throw a blanket over an entire group, even when the majority of them are perfectly healthy?
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    >So why not continue testing unvaccinated people, and allow them to work as long as the test comes back negative? They can. The US mandate allows unvaccinated workers to either get vaccinated or submit to weekly testing.
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> why ignore natural immunity? Why avoid vaccination, after infection? Apparently it's quite beneficial to get vaccinated then.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  risk cost analysis. if you have enough protection already, why add more at the risk of a potential side effect, that's up to the individual. why not exercise, why not inject yourself with x, why not do this or that. why don't you just get in the train. why not force everyone to not be fat while we're at it. we're already forcing people to show their papers, why not force everyone to have a vaccine for every disease? why not just keep everyone in a jail cell so they can't be harmed.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > risk cost analysis. Risk of vaccination is low, benefit good, seems legit. > that's up to the individual Sure, if and only if it's also up to the employer to choose as well. Individual choice without accountably for the consequences of that choice would be nice, but it's in short supply on account of the deadly pandemic. > why not force everyone to not be fat while we're at it. This is a pointless question. Do fat nurses harm patients thereby? No. > why not force everyone to have a vaccine for every disease? There are many contexts in which vaccinations are required. _shrug_ > why not just keep everyone in a jail cell so they can't be harmed. You're not making rational arguments here, just throwing emotional words around.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      vaccinated people are protected against unvaccinated people, the only argument is unvaccinated people take up ICU beds. fat people take up ICU beds for healthy people, being fat is a choice and is the #1 cause of morbidity for covid. the emotional argument is coming from the side saying everyone needs to be 100% vaccinated so we don't all die. give me liberty or give me death is not just a phrase.

listenallyall 5y ago

From the report in your link... > During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection Full vax is only 80% effective? This is quite a bit lower than what the news has been reporting, in the mid-to-high 90's

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Full vax is only 80% effective? This is quite a bit lower than what the news has been reporting, in the mid-to-high 90's mid-to-high 90s is cited as the effectiveness at preventing severe COVID or hospitalization. Effectiveness at preventing detectable infection is obviously going to be lower, because asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic infections can occur.
- listenallyall 5y ago
  No, the CDC says Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different... "Laboratory-confirmed infection". Not severe or hospitalized.
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    You misrepresented the results of the original study as per above. The vaccine is 80% effective at preventing infection in frontline health workers (who are at elevated risk of exposure to COVID-19). It is 95% effective at preventing infection across the general population.
jasonlaramburu 5y ago
>> During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection You conveniently omitted the end of the sentence you quoted. The full sentence is "During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection among frontline workers." Frontline health workers are at elevated risk of exposure to COVID-19, so it's reasonable that more of them would contract the virus, even with an effective vaccine. Did you intentionally misrepresent the results of the study by leaving this part out or was this just a careless omission?

angelzen 5y ago

I have yet to see a reasonable explanation on why UK case rates per 100k for vaccinated people are higher than unvaccinated in >30yo age groups. Whatever the reasons is, it does not match '5X more likely to contract covid'. According to the UK dataset, in 40-49 the rate of infections in vaccinated people is double the rate of infection in unvaccinated people. Yes, the data shows vaccines are effective at preventing hospitalization and death. If you are an adult, get a covid vacine, it will keep you from getting a nasty disease. It's just that the vaccines don't appear to be effective at preventing infection, and this is a major pretext in the push for mandatory vaccinations, to the point we are firing people over it (!!!) while the crowds are cheering (!!!). https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...