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I’ve been using such services once in a while and I can tell you, the point is very well made right in the first try. I do agree it’s going to be hard to make

I’ve been using such services once in a while and I can tell you, the point is very well made right in the first try. I do agree it’s going to be hard to make this profitable without trampling on the workforce, but meanwhile I’m getting ice cold beer in my apartment really cheap and really fast thanks to VCs so thank you I guess.

libertine 5y ago
But isn't that part of the game? Throw absurd amounts of money just to create unsustainable standards that end up changing consumer behavior and expectations? It's the SME that will pay the price for their "bad service" because they can't put things at your door in 5 minutes via drones that are barely regulated. All to thin the herd, leaving us with behemoths that can only talk to us via crappy chat-bots and auto-replies.
gruez 5y ago
>I do agree it’s going to be hard to make this profitable without trampling on the workforce is 15 minute delivery any more exploitative than 2-day or even "regular" delivery? seems like all the issues with delivery (eg. poor warehouse conditions, low pay, contractor classification, pressure to meet metrics) are there regardless of whether it's 15 minute delivery or not.
- adrianN 5y ago
  You can bundle 2 day deliveries to increase efficiency. You don't need a delivery person with just one or two items do the trip between warehouse and your mailbox.
  - gruez 5y ago
    Does bundling 2-day deliveries make companies less willing to exploit workers or something? Is working as a gig economy food delivery worker better than working as an amazon delivery worker?
    - kevincox 5y ago
      No, but price affects demand. So 2-day delivery doesn't have to drive down costs quite as hard to meet the required price (which is probably a bit lower but similar to the 15min service). Of course the workers will be exploited anyways because lower costs means more profits but they don't need to be exploited quite as much. At the end of the day the workers will be exploited exactly up to the limit of what the company can get away with. For "disposable" and interchangeable untrained workers like delivery people that limit is pretty high.
      - gruez 5y ago
        > No, but price affects demand. So 2-day delivery doesn't have to drive down costs quite as hard to meet the required price (which is probably a bit lower but similar to the 15min service). This argument only works if you consider 15-minute delivery as a different business unit as 2-day delivery, so they'll be fighting it out to gain market share. In reality, the same company is behind both options, so it doesn't really matter. They really don't care if you choose 15-minute or 2-day delivery, only that you bought it from them. If anything, they'll keep the 2-day delivery cost the same and charge a premium for 15-minute, because "how urgently you want it" is a pretty good price discriminator.
    - DavidPeiffer 5y ago
      >Is working as a gig economy food delivery worker better than working as an amazon delivery worker? The physical work? No idea. From a risk and compensation standpoint, probably much better at Amazon. If you crash your car driving for Uber Eats, you're on the hook for it. If you're injured on the job, you simply don't earn money since you're an independent contractor. Not to mention health, life, and disability insurance and PTO all provided by most large companies, and having a point of contact who might care about you on a personal level as opposed to getting all your work assignments from an app optimizing profit not for you, but for the service company. My employer ships coolers of food to people. The fulfillment centers are cold, and it's really hard work. But if John's car breaks down, the team works together and figures it out. Mary agrees to swing by and pick John up on her way to work, and Mark will take him home after the shift until the car is fixed. The manager sometimes picks people up herself.
- michaelt 5y ago
  Much easier to give health insurance to 100 drivers working 8 hours a day than to 400 drivers working 2 hours a day.
- villasv 5y ago
  > Is 15 minute delivery any more exploitative than 2-day or even "regular" delivery? Not inevitably but probably, because a stricter SLO introduces higher logistic optimization constraints. Those constraints are targeted prioritizing low costs and don't care about higher human-labor inefficiency. For example, have more personnel more evenly distributed throughout the city, but they'll have more wait-times between deliveries. Is that wait-time paid for? Usually not. A more relaxed SLO gives more room to aim for efficiency (bundling deliveries, sequencing routes) and thus it's easier to justify hiring someone full-time and in a stable and predictable work relationship.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
Sure. The point is catering for emergencies and cravings, and maybe laziness/convenience. But this is exactly the sort of premium service that people should be willing to pay for. So, to me, saying that they won't charge for the service is a big mistake: they are setting themselves up for extra costs will passing on income. This will not last. Ultimately they will charge or disappear, we've seen it with other delivery services. As you say, you're bagging a bargain thanks to VCs, so enjoy while it lasts.
NineStarPoint 5y ago
I just don’t see why the demand is high enough to create a business around. While there are certainly times I wished I could get a delivery of X in under an hour, the vast majority of the time I plan ahead well enough that, when I don’t think I’ll have grocery store time/energy, ordering groceries for delivery tomorrow is sufficient. The amount of times I’d be willing to pay more for this day groceries is very small. (Edit: Obviously, you can get around this by using VC funding to keep your pricing in line with slower services. That’s not sustainable though.) But I’m rarely a good judge of demand for a product I wouldn’t personally use, so maybe lots of people do just want the groceries immediately.
- villasv 5y ago
  > I just don’t see why the demand is high enough to create a business around. I live in a city with more than 10MM residents, so there's enough demand for vodka-focused 15-min delivery businesses. The problem is more of cutthroat competition than demand.

libertine 5y ago

But isn't that part of the game? Throw absurd amounts of money just to create unsustainable standards that end up changing consumer behavior and expectations? It's the SME that will pay the price for their "bad service" because they can't put things at your door in 5 minutes via drones that are barely regulated. All to thin the herd, leaving us with behemoths that can only talk to us via crappy chat-bots and auto-replies.

gruez 5y ago

>I do agree it’s going to be hard to make this profitable without trampling on the workforce is 15 minute delivery any more exploitative than 2-day or even "regular" delivery? seems like all the issues with delivery (eg. poor warehouse conditions, low pay, contractor classification, pressure to meet metrics) are there regardless of whether it's 15 minute delivery or not.

adrianN 5y ago
You can bundle 2 day deliveries to increase efficiency. You don't need a delivery person with just one or two items do the trip between warehouse and your mailbox.
- gruez 5y ago
  Does bundling 2-day deliveries make companies less willing to exploit workers or something? Is working as a gig economy food delivery worker better than working as an amazon delivery worker?
  - kevincox 5y ago
    No, but price affects demand. So 2-day delivery doesn't have to drive down costs quite as hard to meet the required price (which is probably a bit lower but similar to the 15min service). Of course the workers will be exploited anyways because lower costs means more profits but they don't need to be exploited quite as much. At the end of the day the workers will be exploited exactly up to the limit of what the company can get away with. For "disposable" and interchangeable untrained workers like delivery people that limit is pretty high.
    - gruez 5y ago
      > No, but price affects demand. So 2-day delivery doesn't have to drive down costs quite as hard to meet the required price (which is probably a bit lower but similar to the 15min service). This argument only works if you consider 15-minute delivery as a different business unit as 2-day delivery, so they'll be fighting it out to gain market share. In reality, the same company is behind both options, so it doesn't really matter. They really don't care if you choose 15-minute or 2-day delivery, only that you bought it from them. If anything, they'll keep the 2-day delivery cost the same and charge a premium for 15-minute, because "how urgently you want it" is a pretty good price discriminator.
  - DavidPeiffer 5y ago
    >Is working as a gig economy food delivery worker better than working as an amazon delivery worker? The physical work? No idea. From a risk and compensation standpoint, probably much better at Amazon. If you crash your car driving for Uber Eats, you're on the hook for it. If you're injured on the job, you simply don't earn money since you're an independent contractor. Not to mention health, life, and disability insurance and PTO all provided by most large companies, and having a point of contact who might care about you on a personal level as opposed to getting all your work assignments from an app optimizing profit not for you, but for the service company. My employer ships coolers of food to people. The fulfillment centers are cold, and it's really hard work. But if John's car breaks down, the team works together and figures it out. Mary agrees to swing by and pick John up on her way to work, and Mark will take him home after the shift until the car is fixed. The manager sometimes picks people up herself.
michaelt 5y ago
Much easier to give health insurance to 100 drivers working 8 hours a day than to 400 drivers working 2 hours a day.
villasv 5y ago
> Is 15 minute delivery any more exploitative than 2-day or even "regular" delivery? Not inevitably but probably, because a stricter SLO introduces higher logistic optimization constraints. Those constraints are targeted prioritizing low costs and don't care about higher human-labor inefficiency. For example, have more personnel more evenly distributed throughout the city, but they'll have more wait-times between deliveries. Is that wait-time paid for? Usually not. A more relaxed SLO gives more room to aim for efficiency (bundling deliveries, sequencing routes) and thus it's easier to justify hiring someone full-time and in a stable and predictable work relationship.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

Sure. The point is catering for emergencies and cravings, and maybe laziness/convenience. But this is exactly the sort of premium service that people should be willing to pay for. So, to me, saying that they won't charge for the service is a big mistake: they are setting themselves up for extra costs will passing on income. This will not last. Ultimately they will charge or disappear, we've seen it with other delivery services. As you say, you're bagging a bargain thanks to VCs, so enjoy while it lasts.

NineStarPoint 5y ago

I just don’t see why the demand is high enough to create a business around. While there are certainly times I wished I could get a delivery of X in under an hour, the vast majority of the time I plan ahead well enough that, when I don’t think I’ll have grocery store time/energy, ordering groceries for delivery tomorrow is sufficient. The amount of times I’d be willing to pay more for this day groceries is very small. (Edit: Obviously, you can get around this by using VC funding to keep your pricing in line with slower services. That’s not sustainable though.) But I’m rarely a good judge of demand for a product I wouldn’t personally use, so maybe lots of people do just want the groceries immediately.

villasv 5y ago
> I just don’t see why the demand is high enough to create a business around. I live in a city with more than 10MM residents, so there's enough demand for vodka-focused 15-min delivery businesses. The problem is more of cutthroat competition than demand.