4 ms·

Disagree with prosecuting drones instead of people actually giving orders.

spyke112 5y ago
I agree, it seems silly to me, to be prosecuting a guard after all these years, if anything I hope he will get a chance to apologize, and then live the rest of his life full of remorse.
- Miner49er 5y ago
  This is crazy to me, this guy deserves the death penalty, not a chance to apologize.
  - spyke112 5y ago
    You see Germany has collectively moved past barbaric punishment such as death penalty, so he will most likely be sentenced to prison anyway.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      It’s not obvious to me that warehousing someone for life is massively less barbaric than the death penalty. Either way, you’re depriving them of a full life; one just takes a lot longer. Some people, through their actions, have demonstrated that they’re unable to live freely in society. Society has to choose what to do with those people. There isn’t any great answer, only shades or different types of suckage.
      - RandomLensman 5y ago
        Not how "life" works in Germany - does not mean "life" as such, need to be able to re-enter society (at least in theory).
      - fileeditview 5y ago
        "For life" means maximum of 20 years in Germany. There is also preventive detention afterwards for people that are insane or would still be a danger to society etc. So there is a big difference between death penalty and 20 years. Also you can at least somehow correct the punishment if you "got the wrong guy".
  - _hilro 5y ago
    FTA > "The defendant knowingly and willingly aided and abetted this at least by conscientiously performing guard duty In what world is this a case to charge someone with abetting thousands of deaths by performing guard duty...>50 years after the event..and that person is now 100 years old. It's ludicrous nonsense. No prosecutor in any other civilised part of the world would entertain this for more than 5 seconds.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Jaruzel 5y ago
      > conscientiously performing guard duty His alternative was what? "Hey Nazi bosses, I'm not going do this, it's wrong!" "Then we will shot you on the spot, and replace you with another guard who will." "Err OK then, please forget I objected." People think ALL Nazis had a choice, but a large majority of them were just trying to stay alive by keeping their heads down and doing a good job. EDIT: I'm getting seriously downvoted for this, with replies stating that he had a 'choice' ... OK you try living in a totalitarian state, and see what 'choice' you have.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        The Einsatzgruppen, and other kill squads, were purely voluntary affairs. Not sure about "local" guards, maybe some of those were drafted. Nobody of these guys can hide behind "we just followed orders". It is just sad that the little guys, like a secretary and lowly prison guard, are prosecuted now, when a lot of the mid-level organizers, incl. Doctors and officers in charge, were left alone in Western Germany while they were still alive. EDIT: You didn't have a choice going to war (talking about the male population), you had a choice in volunteering for counter partisan warfare, Einsatzgruppen, concentration camp duty,... And that choice is the crucial one here.
      - sofixa 5y ago
        That's just flat out wrong. The majority of SS personnel ( outside of the Waffen-SS) were volunteers. Furthermore, even draftees often had at least some choice, and could ask for a reassignment.
  - matthewmacleod 5y ago
    Nobody deserves the death penalty, but I admit I’m a tad surprised at the number of responses that are anything other than “it’s okay to prosecute concentration camp guards”.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Miner49er 5y ago
In general? So a cartel member who is ordered to murder someone and does, shouldn't be charged with anything?
- hef19898 5y ago
  80 years after the deed it becomes a tad rediciulous. Especially when all the higher ups have been identified, and not prosecuted, during these 80 years.
  - bserge 5y ago
    There is no statute of limitations on murder lol
_Microft 5y ago
A number of high-ranking members were convicted shortly after WWII in the so-called Nuremberg trials (as they took place in the German city of Nuremberg). Here is the introductory paragraph from Wikipedia: "The Nuremberg trials (German: Nürnberger Prozesse) were a series of military tribunals held following World War II by the Allied forces under international law and the laws of war. The trials were most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, judicial, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany, who planned, carried out, or otherwise participated in the Holocaust and other war crimes.", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials
matthewmacleod 5y ago
Why not both?

I agree, it seems silly to me, to be prosecuting a guard after all these years, if anything I hope he will get a chance to apologize, and then live the rest of his life full of remorse.

Miner49er 5y ago
This is crazy to me, this guy deserves the death penalty, not a chance to apologize.
- spyke112 5y ago
  You see Germany has collectively moved past barbaric punishment such as death penalty, so he will most likely be sentenced to prison anyway.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    It’s not obvious to me that warehousing someone for life is massively less barbaric than the death penalty. Either way, you’re depriving them of a full life; one just takes a lot longer. Some people, through their actions, have demonstrated that they’re unable to live freely in society. Society has to choose what to do with those people. There isn’t any great answer, only shades or different types of suckage.
    - RandomLensman 5y ago
      Not how "life" works in Germany - does not mean "life" as such, need to be able to re-enter society (at least in theory).
    - fileeditview 5y ago
      "For life" means maximum of 20 years in Germany. There is also preventive detention afterwards for people that are insane or would still be a danger to society etc. So there is a big difference between death penalty and 20 years. Also you can at least somehow correct the punishment if you "got the wrong guy".
- _hilro 5y ago
  FTA > "The defendant knowingly and willingly aided and abetted this at least by conscientiously performing guard duty In what world is this a case to charge someone with abetting thousands of deaths by performing guard duty...>50 years after the event..and that person is now 100 years old. It's ludicrous nonsense. No prosecutor in any other civilised part of the world would entertain this for more than 5 seconds.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jaruzel 5y ago
    > conscientiously performing guard duty His alternative was what? "Hey Nazi bosses, I'm not going do this, it's wrong!" "Then we will shot you on the spot, and replace you with another guard who will." "Err OK then, please forget I objected." People think ALL Nazis had a choice, but a large majority of them were just trying to stay alive by keeping their heads down and doing a good job. EDIT: I'm getting seriously downvoted for this, with replies stating that he had a 'choice' ... OK you try living in a totalitarian state, and see what 'choice' you have.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      The Einsatzgruppen, and other kill squads, were purely voluntary affairs. Not sure about "local" guards, maybe some of those were drafted. Nobody of these guys can hide behind "we just followed orders". It is just sad that the little guys, like a secretary and lowly prison guard, are prosecuted now, when a lot of the mid-level organizers, incl. Doctors and officers in charge, were left alone in Western Germany while they were still alive. EDIT: You didn't have a choice going to war (talking about the male population), you had a choice in volunteering for counter partisan warfare, Einsatzgruppen, concentration camp duty,... And that choice is the crucial one here.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      That's just flat out wrong. The majority of SS personnel ( outside of the Waffen-SS) were volunteers. Furthermore, even draftees often had at least some choice, and could ask for a reassignment.
- matthewmacleod 5y ago
  Nobody deserves the death penalty, but I admit I’m a tad surprised at the number of responses that are anything other than “it’s okay to prosecute concentration camp guards”.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Miner49er 5y ago

In general? So a cartel member who is ordered to murder someone and does, shouldn't be charged with anything?

hef19898 5y ago
80 years after the deed it becomes a tad rediciulous. Especially when all the higher ups have been identified, and not prosecuted, during these 80 years.
- bserge 5y ago
  There is no statute of limitations on murder lol

_Microft 5y ago

A number of high-ranking members were convicted shortly after WWII in the so-called Nuremberg trials (as they took place in the German city of Nuremberg). Here is the introductory paragraph from Wikipedia: "The Nuremberg trials (German: Nürnberger Prozesse) were a series of military tribunals held following World War II by the Allied forces under international law and the laws of war. The trials were most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, judicial, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany, who planned, carried out, or otherwise participated in the Holocaust and other war crimes.", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

matthewmacleod 5y ago

Why not both?